@MapleTwinkie : AHHHh I am in love! Hatching a plot to steal now.
@rikumom : suggestions for socials and training would be much appreciated. I was thinking about attending the SFPuppyPrep socials but have heard mixed reviews so I'll have to look into it further
@maru, We're in Sunnyvale so most of the resources I found are on the Peninsula to the South Bay. If you're in SF city limits, they might be a bit far.
Below are the puppy resources I collected last fall: Comprehensive list of Bay Area events including puppy social, many are held at day cares. I recommend the pup socials held at Planet Pooch on Saturdays and A Dog's Life - Sunnyvale on Sundays. http://www.wagntrain.com/events.html
Thank you for the great references. I actually went through training with wagntrain with my samoyed/retriever mix rescue. Really a great class!! I am actually located in South San Francisco so some of those are not terribly far away.
I am really interested in clicker training, nose work and agility. Although it'll be a long ways away before I start agility...gotta let those puppy bones grow =]
Also, I just wanted to get a general idea on sizing. I know AA's are bigger but what is the general weight range of a JA. Some of the ranges I've seen are from 50-100lbs...is there really that much variation? I guess I should inquire about the weights of my pup's parents. I am really hoping for a big boy =]
@rikumom were you at the Golden Gate Kennel Club show at the cow palace the other day? I was roaming around looking for shibas and akitas. I found the most darling shiba there peeking into a cooler filled with treats but unfortunately the only Akitas I saw were asleep and couldn't be bothered lol. So cute though! I did however meet the winner of the Akita group. I think it was a pinto AA?
Ive always seen males as being noticebly larger than females. Toki is 75lbs (a year and a half old) and he will likely gain a little more as he matures. Which. Males take about 3 years to develop whereas females mature super quickly, but theyresmaller. My guess would be 40-60 for females and 55 to 80 for males. And thats being generous. Aim for somewhere in the middle and i agree, look at the parents
In general, a female JA will be 50-65 lbs (55 on average) and 22" - 24" at the shoulder. A male JA will be 60-85lbs (75 on average) and 24" - 26" at the shoulder. These aren't necessarily the numbers you will see by looking at the breed standard, but values I have arrived at personally by observing real, living dogs here in the US.
I don't have enough data to give you growth rates for a JA puppy... but for AA the rule of thumb is 10lbs per month of age up to 7-9 months old then much slower. Since JA are smaller, this doesn't hold true for them.
Neither Kita nor Ayame are very big and Aya has had some pretty small offspring including @*JackBurton*'s Kaede.
@maru, @poeticdragon's numbers are what I've been quoted. I don't remember Aya specifically. Kita is small for a JA male, about 60#. My pup was the runt of her litter and I don't expect her to get bigger than 45#, but who knows. Boys are different though. Her brother Ryu hit 52# beginning of the year when Meichan was only 32#
I was at the Sunday show of GGKC and met the Akitas on bench. There was only one kennel and the dogs were all pinto. Even the small female was about 60#. I missed seeing C&L Kennel, at GGKC they used to bench GP, Akita and Shiba together b/c they had all three breeds. I'm not sure if they're still around, they were based in Campbell but I heard Chuck passed away...
btw, I used wagntrain years ago w/ my shiba Riku when I first brought him home, he was 2, a retired show dog who wouldn't sit in public. These days he gets all bent out of shape/scared at the clicker sound when I train Meichan
ps. if you want a big boy, there is an AA breeder who regular shows up at the Cherry Blossom Festival in Cupertino w/ the shiba peeps. Her dogs range 90-120#
Thank you all for the input on weight =]. I am leaning towards picking a male dog, not because of size alone but mainly because they seem to be a little goofier [ correct me if i am wrong].
I will have to check out the Cherry Blossom Festival the next time it comes around. I have never though to look for nihonken there! and yikes @rikumom i never thought a dog would hate a clicker! my shiba didn't hate it but it also did not care about it even when I tried to associate it with treats. I guess that is just what you have to deal with when you don't have a very food motivated dog.
@maru, SFNC usually have a booth at the Cherry Blossom Festival in Cupertino to educate the public shibas, and a Akita breeder or two come along. There are usually only shibas and Akitas, I've never seen other Japanese breeds there
RE: goofy, I've only met intact JA males, and being intact... goofy isn't my first impression ;-p Meichan's nickname is Loki BB, the Goddess of Mischief. We think she got her mischievous side from her K9 mama Waka, and her needy/midget side from her K9 daddy Kita. Both gave her recessive long coat genes!!
I would not be describing the males as goofy. If you leave them unchecked or you spoil them, you'll find your male anything but goofy. That is one of the things the judge brought up at the show. It's a fine line that we as breeders and club members need to walk. Your male should have that Akita attitude yet we need our dogs also to be mellow to meet the buyer requirement of a "good temperament".
While I would describe Kita as smaller for a JA male, I would not describe him as small. I got a good look at the wicket while the Seiken dogs were in the ring, he is not small.
PD's reply regarding weight is spot on. Depending on your line the puppies will fill in at different rates as they mature.
eep I guess I was wrong about the goofy! I definitely Have no intentions to spoil the dog. I just meant that males seemed a little sillier during play time at home.regardless I do intend to train appropriately and not let it reign over me and my house my goal is to pass the cgc test.
Akita temperament should not be "goofy." The sexual dimorphism in the breed is present in their personalities as well. Males are expected to be serious, stoic, calm, and intense. Females are expected to be sweet, ingratiating, pleasing, and affectionate. Both should have dignity, pride, and confidence. Both should be loyal towards their nuclear family, and aloof and suspicious towards strangers.
Just because they "should" be something doesn't mean they are, however. Not all breeders conform to the standard when it comes to temperament, instead choosing to breed better pets than proper Akitas, eg. dogs that act like a Labrador with a curly tail and pointy ears.
ps. if you want a big boy, there is an AA breeder who regular shows up at the Cherry Blossom Festival in Cupertino w/ the shiba peeps. Her dogs range 90-120#
That's typical for an AA. My boy is 110, and he's neither particularly large or small.
I actually think that many young male AAs do have that "goofy" attitude, so I know exactly what it is. It's something I love about them, and I noticed in shows with the younger males...some of the boys under a year old or around that age still just wanted to play! I think it is a very positive thing, actually, because they're not likely going to stay like that--they will mature and get much more serious. But I had a great time with Oskar's goofy phase. He's nearly three, and really doesn't have too much of it anymore--he's a serious boy, now, but every now and then, playing, he'll slip back into that puppy goof and I really like it.
I don't think it is a mark against them at all, nor does it mean their temperament is off. It just means these are young dogs. It's a puppy thing, and AAs mature slowly, so they still have a lot of puppy attitudes at a year old.
Dunno if this true of JAs or not, but I've seen it a lot in AAs.
and you know, I don't worry much about "spoiling" a dog. what does that mean exactly? We just decide what we find acceptable, or not, and then teach our dogs to follow the rules we choose. What someone thinks is spoiling, another might thing is just normal dog stuff. So I've never been too concerned about that.
@maru, You should also check w/ your home owner insurance carrier to see if they have breed specific lists. I've heard anecdotal stories of home owner policies being dropped b/c of an acquisition of a specific breed, Akita included. We have Farmers and checked w/ our agent before we put a deposit on Meichan.
Thank you all for the valuable input on temperament! @shibamistress my shiba was exactly like that..just a huge goofball when he was a puppy and then slowly matured out of it. I appreciated him being serious 95% of the time but every once in a while during play the puppy in him would peek through. And I agree with you on the spoiling. Some people may not want their dog on the couch but I don't mind it at all. I guess it is just a matter of consistency and setting the ground rules before you start training.
@rikumom We are moving into a new home soon and doing our research on policies. I did a search for suggestions on this forum and will be looking into some of the ones suggested. This forum is SO great for info.
Hey great thread! I have nothing to add really since I don't have a JA (but want a JA or Hokkaido in the mid-term'ish future). All the comments are super informative!
Also I recognized those yellow pants paired with a handsome red brindle as @jellyfart right away lmao. Mainly because of the pants.
Hello~! Red bridles are really nice and I think you got really good breeder near you. Ayame looks much better than pic and she will produce good pup with Kita. my fav red brindle. I'm more in to silver brindle and black, but red brindle is also really beautiful. one of my friend just imported red brindle from korea and will see how he turns out.
It's neat seeing the difference in litters between 2 different sires, even though they are both red. Kitsune's litter with Aya is a lot lighter than Kita's litter with Aya. All of Kita's pups with Aya are almost black/red brindle where Kitsune's are silver/red brindle. But i'm totally just basing this off of the photos, i've never seen any of these dogs in person :P
in regards to males being more goofy...All I have is my experience with Toki, a 16 month old, still puppy-ish. you got to keep in mind, though, that a dog with their owner in their own home is going to be relaxed and playful and silly at times, just because they're in a safe place with people they love. However, I wouldn't describe him as "goofy". He is a very serious and very stoic. But there are these moments he has that he is a playful, excitable little puppy. But goofy, thats not Toki.
I guess I define goofy as ditzy, clumsy, a little stupid. Toki is none of these things, even when he is being his playful self. (which is an adorable, seldom thing to behold in itself, since he is serious/watchful and/or napping all the time)
Comments
http://www.akitapedigree.com/details.php?id=64050
@rikumom : suggestions for socials and training would be much appreciated. I was thinking about attending the SFPuppyPrep socials but have heard mixed reviews so I'll have to look into it further
We're in Sunnyvale so most of the resources I found are on the Peninsula to the South Bay. If you're in SF city limits, they might be a bit far.
Below are the puppy resources I collected last fall:
Comprehensive list of Bay Area events including puppy social, many are held at day cares. I recommend the pup socials held at Planet Pooch on Saturdays and A Dog's Life - Sunnyvale on Sundays.
http://www.wagntrain.com/events.html
Training, we've taken both puppy 1 and 2 at all three "academies":
http://www.siriuspup.com/why_sirius.php (off-leash pup class, emphasize socialization, location varies, most held in pet stores, can be crowded)
http://www.dogslife.biz/ (offers puppy class, obedience and fun stuff like nose work and agility)
http://www.k9essentials.com/classschedules.html (classes held at Planet Pooch in RWC)
Day care & boarding
http://www.poochhotel.com/ (Sunnyvale, owned by PetCo, spacious and fairly new)
http://www.dogslife.biz/ (Palo Alto and Sunnyvale locations)
http://www.planetpooch.com/ (SSF and RWC locations)
http://www.pawscrossing.com/day-care.php (the nicest, most high end boarding place I've ever seen)
Thank you for the great references. I actually went through training with wagntrain with my samoyed/retriever mix rescue. Really a great class!! I am actually located in South San Francisco so some of those are not terribly far away.
I am really interested in clicker training, nose work and agility. Although it'll be a long ways away before I start agility...gotta let those puppy bones grow =]
Also, I just wanted to get a general idea on sizing. I know AA's are bigger but what is the general weight range of a JA. Some of the ranges I've seen are from 50-100lbs...is there really that much variation? I guess I should inquire about the weights of my pup's parents. I am really hoping for a big boy =]
I don't have enough data to give you growth rates for a JA puppy... but for AA the rule of thumb is 10lbs per month of age up to 7-9 months old then much slower. Since JA are smaller, this doesn't hold true for them.
Neither Kita nor Ayame are very big and Aya has had some pretty small offspring including @*JackBurton*'s Kaede.
@poeticdragon's numbers are what I've been quoted.
I don't remember Aya specifically.
Kita is small for a JA male, about 60#.
My pup was the runt of her litter and I don't expect her to get bigger than 45#, but who knows. Boys are different though. Her brother Ryu hit 52# beginning of the year when Meichan was only 32#
AA's are a whole different ballpark. Take a look at this kennel, where 90# is a runt
http://www.bigbearakitas.com/whatsavailable.html
This website gives a range on both JA & AA but it's on the high end for females
http://www.akita-dog.com/Akita_Weight.html
I was at the Sunday show of GGKC and met the Akitas on bench. There was only one kennel and the dogs were all pinto. Even the small female was about 60#. I missed seeing C&L Kennel, at GGKC they used to bench GP, Akita and Shiba together b/c they had all three breeds. I'm not sure if they're still around, they were based in Campbell but I heard Chuck passed away...
btw, I used wagntrain years ago w/ my shiba Riku when I first brought him home, he was 2, a retired show dog who wouldn't sit in public. These days he gets all bent out of shape/scared at the clicker sound when I train Meichan
I will have to check out the Cherry Blossom Festival the next time it comes around. I have never though to look for nihonken there! and yikes @rikumom i never thought a dog would hate a clicker! my shiba didn't hate it but it also did not care about it even when I tried to associate it with treats. I guess that is just what you have to deal with when you don't have a very food motivated dog.
SFNC usually have a booth at the Cherry Blossom Festival in Cupertino to educate the public shibas, and a Akita breeder or two come along. There are usually only shibas and Akitas, I've never seen other Japanese breeds there
The 2013 festival will be held on April 27 and 28, 2013.
http://www.cupertinotoyokawa.org/
RE: goofy,
I've only met intact JA males, and being intact... goofy isn't my first impression ;-p
Meichan's nickname is Loki BB, the Goddess of Mischief. We think she got her mischievous side from her K9 mama Waka, and her needy/midget side from her K9 daddy Kita. Both gave her recessive long coat genes!!
While I would describe Kita as smaller for a JA male, I would not describe him as small. I got a good look at the wicket while the Seiken dogs were in the ring, he is not small.
PD's reply regarding weight is spot on. Depending on your line the puppies will fill in at different rates as they mature.
Just because they "should" be something doesn't mean they are, however. Not all breeders conform to the standard when it comes to temperament, instead choosing to breed better pets than proper Akitas, eg. dogs that act like a Labrador with a curly tail and pointy ears.
I actually think that many young male AAs do have that "goofy" attitude, so I know exactly what it is. It's something I love about them, and I noticed in shows with the younger males...some of the boys under a year old or around that age still just wanted to play! I think it is a very positive thing, actually, because they're not likely going to stay like that--they will mature and get much more serious. But I had a great time with Oskar's goofy phase. He's nearly three, and really doesn't have too much of it anymore--he's a serious boy, now, but every now and then, playing, he'll slip back into that puppy goof and I really like it.
I don't think it is a mark against them at all, nor does it mean their temperament is off. It just means these are young dogs. It's a puppy thing, and AAs mature slowly, so they still have a lot of puppy attitudes at a year old.
Dunno if this true of JAs or not, but I've seen it a lot in AAs.
and you know, I don't worry much about "spoiling" a dog. what does that mean exactly? We just decide what we find acceptable, or not, and then teach our dogs to follow the rules we choose. What someone thinks is spoiling, another might thing is just normal dog stuff. So I've never been too concerned about that.
You should also check w/ your home owner insurance carrier to see if they have breed specific lists. I've heard anecdotal stories of home owner policies being dropped b/c of an acquisition of a specific breed, Akita included. We have Farmers and checked w/ our agent before we put a deposit on Meichan.
@rikumom We are moving into a new home soon and doing our research on policies. I did a search for suggestions on this forum and will be looking into some of the ones suggested. This forum is SO great for info.
Also I recognized those yellow pants paired with a handsome red brindle as @jellyfart right away lmao. Mainly because of the pants.
Red bridles are really nice and I think you got really good breeder near you.
Ayame looks much better than pic and she will produce good pup with Kita.
my fav red brindle.
I'm more in to silver brindle and black, but red brindle is also really beautiful.
one of my friend just imported red brindle from korea and will see how he turns out.
Aya was very skinny and then filled in around 2.
Brindle males she has produced Yoshi and Sachio (pictured above) but she also had Tora
Jiro
http://www.facebook.com/junketsu
I guess I define goofy as ditzy, clumsy, a little stupid. Toki is none of these things, even when he is being his playful self. (which is an adorable, seldom thing to behold in itself, since he is serious/watchful and/or napping all the time)