Why some dog breeds don't make sense.... :)

edited March 2013 in General
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both are from deviantart. Gotta give credit to the artist. I like her drawing style, too :)
http://www.deviantart.com/art/Parade-Of-Mutants-358202356 and http://www.deviantart.com/art/Playing-with-Genetics-330677609

Comments

  • Um, 100% in agreement with the substance of the thread, but that sharpei shouldn't be there, genetically they are even older than Akitas and Shibas according to DNA studies, they are one of the closest breeds to the wolf.
  • Thanks for posting this, it really piqued my curiosity into why some dogs evolved to have shorter snouts. In my short time researching(googling) this topic, it turns out that this mutation was a result of breeding for behaviour. Apparently, selecting traits like friendliess/domesticity/trainability etc produce dogs with shorter snouts. All puppies are born with short snouts to better enable suckling. The "puppiness" quality of the dogs that we desire appear to remain with short snouted dogs.

    Maybe there is something to this? Wolves have long snouts. But then there are dog breeds which have long snouts, and there are breeds which are not very friendly with short snouts.
  • @white_bear I don't think a breed's age necessarily is a means of telling how close to the wolf they are. It could easily mean that a specific dog breed as been tampered with for a lot longer than others. The Shar Pei are genetically close to the wolves (...I don't think as close as the NK), but I think these illustrations are talking about weird/unnecessary physical transformations caused by breeding to satisfy man-kind's need. In the case of Shar Pei it was fighting (wrinkles) and guarding.

    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2012/02/build-a-dog/dog-families-graphic
  • But did the sharp pei look how it does now as it did back then? It seems unnecessarily hyperstylized today. As adorable as I love the wrinkles, lol


    Neither akitas look how they used to, though there is sone resemblance to the ancestor akitas in the american breeds
  • edited March 2013
    The Shar Pei did not used to be that wrinkly, sure they had some wrinkle but not to the extent they have now.

    http://www.sharpei.ee/test/index.php?link=historypics
    http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-original-shar-pei-new-style-icon.html
    http://inkfish.fieldofscience.com/2011/03/wrinkly-dog-syndrome.html

    I personally don't care for all those wrinkles, but I'm liking this pups face and skin:
    image
  • Haha I love deviantart. :)

    Yeah I think wrinkles was main reason why shar pei is on it plus don't people need clean the wrinkles?

    I like the less wrinkly examples..

    I mean I seen a female Neapolitan mastiff and omg who ever bred her was nuts she is way to wrinkly almost looked alien.
  • edited March 2013
    :-) My good friend and vet is Shar Pei breeder, so I got to know quite a lot about them, behaviour-wise they are as close to Akitas as another dog breed can be.

    They are as old if not older than Akita and Shiba and they have been isolated geografically for thousands of years, which made it impossible for people to interfere too much. This changed in the past hundred of years or so and the changes occured mainly outside of China.

    You probably don't know that there is a big debate about splitting the breed, just as it is now in the US about Akita. The Traditional Shar Pei doesn't have the wrinkles that the Shar Pei has.

    Here is an interesting read http://www.thedogplace.org/BREEDS/Shar-Pei/0007-Evolution_Omura.asp

    If you take a look at Shar Peis in China you will see they have nothing to do with what he think a Shar Pei looks like and even outside China the Shar Pei is starting to lose its wrinkles.

    And a picture worth a thousand words, by the same Eric Omura
    image
  • I have heard that even the wrinkly sharpeis dont stay wrinkly when they are mature- is that true? That the ones you see in photos that are super wrinkly are still young?
  • Most of them are wrinkly as puppies and lose 90% of the wrinkles as adults. There are some, exaggerated ones, that are very wrinkled even as adults, but from what I saw in the ring they are losing ground.

    Here is one of my friend's dogs, he is actually imported from the States, he was 20 months old in this pic and you can see how few his wrinkles are.

    image
  • I know two traditional Shar Pei. One is purebred and the other has... I don't remember what. It was an "oopsie" litter. One is mistaken for a Pitbull and the other is mistaken for a Husky mix - all the time.

    In the latter's case, I can see the Shar Pei-Wolf connection. She is very "wild" in her looks - almost like I'd expect a feral dog to look. It could be her mix, though. You can still clearly see the Shar Pei in her. The former has an ultra-short, irritating coat while the latter has a very dense coat - almost like a NK... just a bit shorter than Takoda's but very coarse... almost like the one posted above looks.


    BUT... I agree with the original post to some extent. There are many dog breeds out there that are ridiculous. ;3
  • Have fun.
    image


  • And a picture worth a thousand words, by the same Eric Omura
    image
    I'm curious where the European spitz breeds fall on this tree (buhunds, elkhounds, laika). hmmm.

  • Interesting about the Sharpei, and that "tree" is really cool too. Interesting to see the basenji on there too!

    Most sharpeis I've seen--only a handful--have few wrinkles as adults.

  • @Mapletwinkie I read that when wolves were domesticated, the highly successful cases were ost likely the immature ones. I mean, hte ones that barked and had more curly tails as these are both traits that wolves have,in usuality, as pups.
  • I think there are a lot of hypothesis about how wolves were domesticted

    I like the idea that the wolves whose stomaches could digest carbs more efficiently were able to stay around tribes deloping something like a symbiotic relationship leading to domestication.
  • I was watching a show on the discovery channel, I forgot what it was called but it threw out the suggestion that some species of dogs may be descended from the dhole instead of from wolves.
  • WRT wolf domestication, check out Mark Derr's stuff...

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dogs-best-friend/201303/what-is-the-dog-wolf-0

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dogs-best-friend/201303/the-altai-dog-tells-tale


    Now, WRT that tree images, that's neat. But it is WAY over simplified. Technically the Siberian Husky is a mix of various aboriginal laiki.

    Also, where is the Jindo? It's older than the Akita...


    I really like your friend's Sar Pei @white_bear!
  • What's wrong with the Puli?
  • photo Yimbougauwong1972.jpg


    The Chinese Shar Pei is an ancient breed. Many believe they originated in the Kwangtung Province of China. Paintings on pottery along with a few drawings and some statues that resemble the Shar Pei have dated back as far as the Han Dynasty in 200 B.C. More recently manuscripts dating back to the 13th century describe a wrinkled dog with many of the Shar Pei characteristics.

    photo DV00002.jpg

    The ancestry of the Chinese Shar Pei is still somewhat of a mystery. Many believe it is a descendent of the Chow Chow but the only clear link is the purple or black tongue. The bear coat Shar Pei albeit rare bares a strong resemblance to the Chow Chow breed also. Chinese Shar Pei were kept as a general purpose farm dog in the Chinese farming country for hunting, protecting livestock and guarding their family and home. During that period of time the Shar Pei was bred for intelligence, strength and their fighting ability. They also were said to have been used to protect Chinese Royalty and Samurai Warriors.

    photo Siulonn.jpg

    Later they were used for fighting dogs because of their incredible strength and loose skin and extremely prickly coat they became known as "the ultimate fighting dog". Shar Pei were extremely hard for their opponent to hold on to and take to the ground. They also used their hind quarters to swing at their opponent letting their opponent get a grip on their back side, then they would virtually roll in their loose skin and shred their opponent with razor sharp teeth. The Shar Pei have tremendously strong jaws and could crush the bones of their opposition.

    photo dv0001320Large20copy20Large20Large.jpg

    During the communist revolution the Shar Pei breed was rescued by a Chinese business man named Matgo Law, who pled with the Americans through magazine ads to save the breed. At that point in time between 1970 and 1973 the Chinese Shar Pei was nearly extinct. Following the establishment of the People's Republic of China, China became a communist nation. The dog population of China was virtually eliminated. No dogs were seen in the cities and few dogs remained in the country side. During this period of time there were a few Shar Pei bred in Hong Kong and some in Taiwan. There were very few specimens that came to the United States, most by "well off" dog fanciers and unfortunately the rule of the day was inbreeding to save them from complete extinction..

    photo 1974.jpg

    photo sharpei_070.jpg

    The name "Shar Pei" roughly translated means "sand skin". The horse coat Shar Pei has short hair and feels prickly to the touch which is another of it's unique qualities. Shar Pei also has been loosely translated to "rough, sandy coat" or "sandpaper coat. However there are two distinct varieties of Shar Pei, one is called a "bone nose" and the other a "meat mouth". The meat mouth has a heavily padded muzzle while the bone nose has a more typical muzzle. There are also three different kinds of coats they may have. The one described above and also there is the brush coat which is softer and up to one inch in length. Then there is the rare bear coat which is also soft and can be up to three inches in length.

    photo sharpei60.jpg

    photo bitch1.jpg
  • Very nice!

    Love the pictures and info on the shar pei kimputai.

    I've met two rescued shar pei in person they were pretty interesting dogs. One of them took liking to Saya and they wrestled all the time there together.. It was cute sadly I never had camera when the owner came. :\
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