Nihon Ken Tricks

MapleTwinkie

Saigo needs to learn and perform a trick to graduate from his Beginner Dog class next week.

We've been teaching him "paw" and he just doesn't get it! I'm not sure if it's because he's pretty unco-ordinated (he's still got his puppy awkwardness and lifting up a paw causes him to be unbalanced, lol)
He's gotten everything else really quickly (sit, down, leave it, stay), but can't get "paw". Saigo has even learned to use the bells for when he wants to go outside.
Then we tried spin and he doesn't get that either.
Are Nihon Ken's less inclined to do certain tricks over others? What are your experiences and what tricks can your Nihon Ken do?


Thanks!
Lisa

shibamistress

Ha! My Akita didn't get paw either! Well, he'd get part way. He got stuck at the just lifting his paw a little bit (you know how you click when they're doing any paw movement at first?). But he loved spin, probably because he has a tendency to chase his tail anyway. If you go slow with spin, just click and treat for the head turned in the right direction, then a little further, a little further, most dogs will get it.

Would they count "touch" as a trick? Touch is a really useful command anyway, so maybe you could do that. Start with "touch" to target the flat of the hand, then get him to touch something else?

Probably "sit up" is too hard for a dog still in the puppy stage!

What my dogs could learn easily depended very much on the dog. My AA was slower to learn than the others, but he was steady, and "paw" aside, he got most of it. Shibas were super fast as adults.

My Kai Ken is by far the quickest learner and gets anything (but gets bored quick like the Shibas) and he does tend to look for short cuts. But he didn't see the point of tricks. He got paw, but mostly won't do it. He does spin but also doesn't much like it. We tried to teach "roll over" in the class and he flat out refused. And when we were supposed to do our tricks in class, he wouldn't do anything at all, and the trainer said he was too dignified to do tricks! *lol* (he's not that dignified a dog, he just wasn't interested). I said he would do fine if he we had agility equipment, or even a chair for him to jump up onto on command, but we didn't, so he just didn't do the trick part!

WrylyBrindle

In addition to sit/down/stay/come/wait/go/leave it/ok:

Juno (kai) can "sit pretty" (sit up/beg), paw/other paw, roll over, hop up on my back, spin, and stand on her hind legs and twirl in a circle (which we call "circus"), catch a frisbee. She also knows Find It!

Sage (NK mix) can crawl on his belly ("play army"), paw/other paw, sit up, speak!, high five, spin, catch frisbees. His 2 best tricks are "Indoor Voice" which is like 'speak' but in which he just makes a little breath noise instead of a bark, and if I hold his football on the ground and start calling out numbers he will play bow in front of me and wait like that till I say 'hike!' before rushing the ball. He also knows "Go Long!"

Matsu (kai) doesn't do any tricks yet. He is still mastering his patience skills like stay and wait/ok. He is learning to sit up and give paw, but he's not there yet. He can go find a ball and bring it to me if I say "Wheres a ball?" he loves fetch, and is sporadic at catch- he doesnt 'go long' though. He's a teenager

shibamistress

@WrylyBrindle....I think we went the other way with Leo. He's not patient and doesn't focus well (though he's getting better) so instead of working on stuff I'm not patient with either (wait, etc), I decided to get him to do things he would do, like the agility games and spin, touch, etc. Of course, we still need to work on wait, but he's in a better frame to get it now that he's older and able to focus better! (but I'm a lazy trainer and tend to do what is easiest for them!)

WhoBitMe

Outside of basics that we're working on (sit/stay/come/down/wait/leave it/stand) Meitou knows paw (his right paw), touch (touching his nose to either hand), and 'chuu' (he puts his nose to my mouth for a kiss). He is learning get your tail/spin, backing up, wave, roll over, 'go through' (weaving between my legs in a figure eight), shame (covering his nose with his paw), and sit up (with eventually a variant I'll either call kung fu or karate or something where hopefully while sitting up he'll wave his paws around). I've got other tricks I'm hoping to teach him but I haven't started on them yet.

WrylyBrindle

Lisa- Im not doing this in any order, it just happened that he needs to learn to wait patiently more than he needs to spin I got tired of him popping up at the food bowl, or getting too hyped up for things and I needed him to just chill out and I'll get to him. Maybe because I have all 4 loose in the house most of the time and things can get competitive if I dont teach patience. We dont practice long downstays or anything formal.

He is really good at going to his crate when I'm making dinner (because if he is there, he will get a sample, but nowhere else.) or if we are eating- its cute to see him think "Oh I really want a bit of that chicken, hmm...its so crowded, and Sage is right there so..?- ah! my crate! I'll just lay in there and - yeah. I knew it, here she comes!"

I would like to teach him more tricks because its more stuff you can ask for. I just havent spent the time. He does know Touch, but I dont use it much since that class ended.

StefJackUk

We have had Keiko (a JA) for a week now and have taught her sit, paw, high five, touch and leave it so far. We are following the learn to earn training so she is learning she has to sit for food, petting, play to go into anoyher room or outside etc. She is picking it all up quick although sometimes gets bored and if she sees where I'm getting the treats from she will just run and try to get them but then gets back into the training once she realises she can't get them!

I'm thinking of getting a clicker and then trying some more complex tricks like spin etc she loves to chase her tail so I'm hoping she will pick that one up quick! Do most of you use clickers with your nihon ken?

WhoBitMe

@StefJackUk I use a clicker sometimes, and sometimes I don't. If I don't use a clicker I'll use a marker word, like "Yes!" or "Good!" Something like that.

WrylyBrindle

We have a lot of success with lure-reward training for tricks, such as rollover. Matsu's puppy class and Foundations 1 class were all clicker, and I think it confused him to work so slowly- he was sortof like "can you just SHOW me what you want already?" I think clicker shaping works great for many things (like Touch for one), but for other things, like STAY, I had to ditch the clicker and do it on my own time with Jeff holding the leash. The good news is that this way, he understood quickly that I wanted him to keep in place, while I walked away. In clicker class, I had to click and treat him for (me) shifting position, then for me leaning away, then for me taking one step aside, then for all the other little bits that make up a stay, and I think we both found this boring and frustratingly slow. In the yard, he'd stay with Jeff and I'd signal him, and step away, then return and give him a treat, if he broke position, no treat- I say Oops, and go ask him to sit back by Jeff. With the leash on, he couldnt break and run around after me, but he figured it out in one session and looked happier doing it.

WhoBitMe

Yeah, I use luring, too. This is actually the first time I've used a clicker (border collie was afraid of the sound until she went near-deaf recently). And I only click when I see a behavior I want, often after I've got him to offer the behvior via luring a few times. So I guess I'm not super dependent on the clicker, but I have used it some. It did help Meitou figure out the difference between "touch" and "paw" lol.

jellyfish

Toki will not roll over. Ever. He is too smart. He thinks if he just stands up, itll be easier to get the treat. Waahhh....lol!

PoetikDragon

Conversely.... my American Akita taught herself paw! Its her favorite thing to do.

violet_in_seville

For touch B used a post it note and progressively folded it into smaller squares. Apparently it took about thirty minutes (no clicker) and happened while I was taking a nap. He started with the hand but he said using the post it made things progress much faster (and helped differentiate between high five and touch).

sukoshi_mom

Maybe you could teach Saigo to find a treat under a box. This suggestion is prompted by watching some of the videos of nose work.

slkblaze

@WhoBitMe Chuu!

WhoBitMe

@slkblaze That's great!

Crispy

In addition to basic obedience, TK knows touch and "follow". He's almost entirely trained to run behind me and follow me when he sees a stranger now.

He also knows "shake it" (shake off), "bless you" (sneeze), "speak", "high five", "paw", "roll over" and we're learning "BANG" (because I'm a loser).



London basically only knows two different sets of obedience commands, how to slap you in the face with a big ol' mitt, and how to yell at you with the Barry Manilow of dog voices. He remains somewhat selectively deaf when not in his "work" gear.

WrylyBrindle

Oh- shake off is a good one! Very helpful with Sage! I forgot that!

I love your description on London LOL

Calia

I've been working with all of my pups with various tricks/commands, Tikaani being the most educated in that regard. I have been using mostly luring, as shaping is a lot harder to do without a clicker. Haven't used a clicker in some time due to Tetsu totally shutting down from the sound of it. They all know sit, down, stand, paw, heeling, stay, spin, and go to heel. Other things that some but not all know is bow, heel backwards, dumbbell, sit/down/stand from a distance, and probably a few others that I can't remember.

It is funny how often "stand" is forgotten in training, rarely taught outside of the show ring. When working on the basics, I would often have them rotate between sit, down, and stand often switching up the order to give them a better understanding of each one.

The only trick I've had difficult with is roll over, they all hate doing it so I haven't bothered working on it since it isn't that important. I still find it funny how many people feel that the breeds I have are hard to train, it's been a blast working with my pups and so it can't just be luck that they all have been able to be taught so much.

MapleTwinkie

Thanks everyone for the replies!

My hubby got Saigo to do paw!! All this time we were reaching for his left paw. Apparently he's right-pawed. He does paw now, but only with his right lol. I was scared we were going to fail beginner class.

I want to teach him to do something cute - like bow. Can anyone does this and what are the steps?

Lisa

WhoBitMe

@MapleTwinkie I haven't tried bow with Meitou yet. It had slipped my mind, actually. I did teach bow to my border collie, so I'm not sure my (minimal) steps are sufficient (but maybe they are). With her I put one hand on her belly to keep her hindquarters from going down, then I would lure her into a down. Once her front end was down and I was holding her back end up she'd get a "yes!" or something and the treat. After a few sessions I added in a command and eventually I didn't need to use my hand to hold her up. It was kind of fun, since the queue for that command was if I did I (really poorly executed) bow to her. She hasn't been really willing to do that trick for awhile though, due to her bad arthritis, I think.