Socialisation - big dogs and little dogs

I just wondered if any of you had any tips or experiences with regards to socialisation that you could share with me especially involving big dogs and little dogs.

When socialising Keiko (JA) we seem to have a bit of an issue with small dogs. We have a very busy park and field at the end of my road and walk her there twice a day during both walks she will interact with other dogs 90% of the time, most of the people are friendly and once we have checked their dogs are ok for Keiko to meet we let them greet.

What we are finding is that small dogs really have an issue with her. She is 4 months and growing rapidly and is bigger than all the 'small' breeds we encounter. So far we have only met one small dog a pomeranian who is willing to play with her. She has a habit of jumping at the dog's faces when initiating play and bigger dogs put her in her place a couple of times and then she is fine playing with most big dogs.

What we are finding is that she has a difficult time understanding when to back off from the little dogs who don't want to play with them she chases them trying to initiate play even when they are barking and giving clear signals they don't want to play. At no point have I ever seen any aggressive gestures, growls, showing teeth etc from Keiko she's not much of a barker anyway but she doesn't even bark back.

At ring craft class my concern was she would be trying to play with the other dogs constantly but she was good as gold and picked up on the other dogs energy and was settled in the room only interacting at times it was allowed. Once again there was a small dog there that growled and lunged at her when she was looking the other way. I have been told on more than one occasion she is a happy confident pup, and I'm wondering if its her confidence that's causing this issue?

Have any of you had any similar issue or have any advice on how to deal with it? It will be greatly appreciated :)

Comments

  • My Shiba used to scare the crap out of little dogs when he was a puppy. And some of those little dogs were still bigger than him (we're talking about a 5 lb puppy here). The problem sounds similar to that of your JA---he wanted to play and he would immediately jump on any other dog and start play fighting, which really freaked the little dogs out. What helped him, was just some really constant dog/dog socialization: we took him to daycare every weekday over the summer (and then continued on afterwards because of his separation anxiety). The next time we took him to the dog park, during the middle of the summer, we noticed that his behavior had totally changed. Now he tries to engage other dogs in play by running past them and trying to get them to chase him. Other dogs seem to find him much less intimidating now. He does still freak out cats with that behavior though.
  • I just let them play and aggravate the little dogs. I have a grouchy old chi and when I got Shelby, I just let her bother the little one until Sophie had enough of Shelby's antics and growled at her. I did keep a very close eye on them and never left them unattended. Shelby is good with little dogs now. She is gentle in playing with them and now knows their warning signs.

    It sounds mean to do, but I have to add that I would NEVER let them fight. I just wanted Shelby to know her boundaries with the tiny ones. I also took her to daycare and made sure she hung out with dogs of all sizes.
  • edited July 2013
    I just let them play and aggravate the little dogs.
    That is definitely not the right thing to do in my opinion. The purpose of canine socialization is to teach your dog good doggy etiquette, not how to be an aggravating beast. Socialization is not "throw them together and let them sort it out" it is a guided example of how to behave correctly. It is our job as owners and trainers to guide our young pups when the other dogs they play with are unable or unwilling to teach them to behave.

    The dog needs to learn that it only gets to play with the other dogs when it behaves appropriately. This is easiest to do with negative punishment, aka punishment by removal. Take away the good thing (being allowed to play with other dogs) when your dog acts inappropriate. Seperate your dog from the smaller dog and focus on doing something else (ask her to perform some tricks she knows) until she is calm and ready to try again.

    Every time the other dog signals that it is uncomfortable and you do NOT remove your dog, you are tacitly giving approval and positive reinforcement for her bad behavior.
  • Saigo was the same way. He just wanted to play and had no idea about puppy etiquette. He used to go up to all dogs and paw and jump on them, regardless of their size - I let him "learn" from the nice big dogs (he got yelled and learned pretty quickly), however with the little ratty dogs, I just avoided them altogether. Most small dogs are bitchy anyways, I didn't care to take the time to find out if they were cool. At around 4 months when Saigo started getting big, he learned that they're not fun anyways so he would just sniff and move on.
  • I may have worded my last post wrong. Since I have a tiny dog and I know her so well, I just let Shelby aggravate her. That happens just by sniffing Sophie or being in the general area. Sophie would have enough of Shelby getting in her face and growl a little. I then told Shelby to back off. I also reprimanded Sophie like I always do when she's grouchy. It taught Shelby to respect Sophie's space and be a little more gentle with small dogs. It also teaches Sophie to not be as grouchy when another dog is just investigating her. Sophie is always, and I mean ALWAYS in my lap and she gets protective of me. She now knows that Shelby belongs to me too and doesn't snap at her.

    When I took Shelby to daycare, it was where I worked and I had a window right in front of my station where I could see her at all times. If she got pushy with the small dogs, I let them correct her and then I tapped on the glass and pointed at her (I did this with any dog that was being pushy). She got the hint and started playing nicely again.

    If she acted out and the little dogs did not correct her behavior immediately, I put her in outside daycare alone for a few minutes. I then put her back in daycare and repeated the process, if necessary. My boss would have done the same (she did with any other dogs) but I told her to let me handle Shelby. This only happened a few times before Shelby got the hint and, even though I still watched her, she always played nicely.

    I try my hardest to be a responsible pet owner and have well behaved dogs. I'm sorry if anyone got the wrong impression. I have just found that letting the other dog correct Shelby as well as my correction has helped her become a gentle playmate for dogs and cats of all sizes. I surely don't want to give bad advice to anyone either and I'm sorry.
  • Personally I think size matters.
    @Myabee09, it sounds like Shelby figured it out, but I would be concerned if my JA thought it was okay to pester other dogs (regardless size) and the other dog accidentally got hurt.
  • Yeah, size does matter. My AA really does not like smaller dogs -- doesn't matter the age or breed. If its small enough that it MIGHT walk up under her and bite her on the belly (a basset puppy did this to her repeatedly) she wants it to stay the hell away from her. She avoids them if at all possible, but if not given the chance to get away (in an enclosure for example) she gets snarly.
  • edited July 2013
    Thank you all for your advice. Given what you've all been saying I am going to focus on removing her and getting her sit calmly when she pesters or gets too much for the other dogs. I have been doing this recently anyway but reading your feedback shows me that perseverance and consistency is key in getting her to learn her doggy manners!

    I am taking her to a pet exhibition tomorrow which I'm hoping will be a great place to put this into practice more as there will be lots of people and dogs for her socialise with! Also sticking with larger dogs initially will probably be better too. Then when she has learnt more social skills I can start introducing her to smaller dog's so hopefully she won't overwhelm them.

    Any other experience's or advice are welcome! :)
  • I've been lucky. Ninja (akita) played with Sasuke(shiba puppy) nice "out of the box." She would cuddle with him while he slept.

    Mochi (25 lbs border collie?) would bite at Eevee's (Akita mix?) neck and would begin play that way, but nothing too aggressive. Mochi is just a bundle of energy compared to Eevee. He does get her to play with toys again though.

    Now, Ninja is mean to dogs bigger than her. She always has been. I did not socialize her with other dogs besides a few obedience classes we had. If a dog bigger than her 110lbs frame was around, she would bark at it.
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