NK as PPD
My sister is/might be interested in one of the medium sized NK. We grew up with "difficult" dogs and are pretty dog-savvy people now and she really likes TK (lord knows why) and after I spoke to her a bit about how he is as a companion, she seems convinced she'd like one and wants to research a little more.
She did have a question on if NK would do well trained for personal protection. TK is pretty anxious, so I don't know how he'd do as a protection dog... but he has really good focus and he's really biddable/easily directed, so maybe one raised with that in mind -might- work out.
Does anyone have any experience with this or know of NK as protection dogs?
She did have a question on if NK would do well trained for personal protection. TK is pretty anxious, so I don't know how he'd do as a protection dog... but he has really good focus and he's really biddable/easily directed, so maybe one raised with that in mind -might- work out.
Does anyone have any experience with this or know of NK as protection dogs?
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The thing she will run into though.. Is trying to find a trainer / club that will accept her. Many trainers are strictly GSD. Then there are some who do GSD and Mali / Boxer / Dobe.. Very rarely will you find a trainer who will work with non-traditional PPD breeds. No trainer would refer you to one either, they're all strictly opinionated and do lots of gossip / bad mouthing about other trainers and breeds. I had a hard enough time finding a trainer for my guy, and he is part Shepherd.. :-S
Where does she live ? Which NK was she looking into ? I really recommend she talk this over with the breeder, as they know their stock & potential a lot more than anyone else.. A lot of people act like training in protection can make or break a dog, especially fearful ones, but I've never seen a dog have a negative response.. The worse I've seen is they aren't interested / poor impulse / aren't serious enough for the trainer to want to continue..
@brada1878 - She doesn't want a sport dog. She wants a dog she can train for family protection, have as a companion, and an "outdoors dog". I recommended she get a guardian breed, but she's afraid most of them are on her complex's breed restrictions/bans (which was a list as long as my arm).
The breed bans/restrictions include NEWFIES, for crissake. There are also multiple listings for breeds if they're known as more than one name on there and... I have no idea what a "Colorado Dog" is, but it's on there. It's mostly large dogs, so I wonder if it has more to do with size and not the breed (but one has to wonder why not just say restrictions over a certain size instead of targeting breeds).
You need a breed with good suspicion, good nerves, and "fight". You also need a dog to have civil aggression (they want to bite people). Kai have suspicion, nerves, but little fight (a lot more flight in Kai) and not much civility. I don't think Shikoku have much suspicion or civility either - tho your Shikoku sounds like he has some civility.
I think a Kishu would be the only chance of having a PPD NK, but I still think it'd be a stretch.
My concern is that Shikoku and Kai can be a bit small, and I personally would be worried to put them in any sort of danger. I've never lived with either breed so I can't comment much on their suitability.
How far is she looking to train ? Does she want him to go for a bite ? Or would she just be comfortable with Bark & Hold or defense scenarios?
I cannot speak to the other NK as I have never owned them.
@omgtain - Her city requires a license and insurance on any dogs trained for protection - I told her to check with her complex to see if that would be ok as long as she had those (since the city demands it anyway). As far as how far she wants to go, she implied - without explicitly stating - that she wanted a dog who would stop a human threat if it came at her or her family and she was not able to stop it herself, which is why my first suggestion was a guardian, but she's apprehensive.
@Edgewood - I only get that with TK if my boyfriend or I raise my voice or if my dogs squabble, then he screams or gets flighty and scared. If someone raises their voice in public or someone he doesn't know starts "flailing", he's antagonized by it (I'm sure this is rooted in anxiety). I see it all the time with joggers and runners that get "too close" to me/him. I know to get him off to the side when I see them coming. My experience with Shikoku is "off" because of him, so I guess that's why I thought of them as having potential.
Thank you for all your opinions. You guys are always helpful.
And as always, I hope I don't sound -stupid-.
If a dog who -already- has the desire to bite people has potential in PP work, do you think it would be constructive to have them go through PP training, if eligible? Would it teach them which threats are ok to respond to with aggression or would it just set them back?
I'll be clear and admit I'm considering investigating it with TK, who has intense anxiety about human hands. I've been working on targeting with him to simply have him avoid strangers (per the behaviorist's game plan), since if he's 'allowed', he makes the decision to approach and bite when they come at him with hands. He is also adverse to anyone doing anything 'unusual' with their hands (window washers, runners, joggers). He is always suspicious of newcomers. I just don't know how driven he would be - as @Edgewood said - when oush came to shove.
I have no real use for a PPD, but if it'll help him, I'm for it. I'm not even sure he'll be a candidate for the training or if I can find a trainer to give him that chance, but it can't hurt to look.
I remember hearing that a true PPD has to be able to handle getting smacked around and beaten (as that will happen when the dog is attacking someone), and not break away from the assailant until called off. I've also heard that the dog has to have good judgment, if they can't tell who's a good guy or bad guy the world could be a living hell for both dog and handler.
Either way, the pre-temperament test some places give may be worth a try. If anything, it could give you some new insight on TK and what he can and can't handle.
If TK isn't at his full temperament wise, then PPD training might raise his confidence and drives.. or if he is just kind of nervous, because thats who he is, I think the stress would be a lot for him.
But I could be wrong. A lot of (good) PPD trainers can tell what dogs are good vs not so good just by being around them. So maybe set up an evaluation from a trainer.. If they don't think he can handle it, they'll let you know right off the bat. So theres no shame in trying, just don't be dead set on it.
Again, just curious where their personality came from and how it was shaped
1) They're a less refined breed than the other NK breeds, and so they have more "wildness" in them. Wild canine will flee before they fight.
2) The breed's hunting style, as you mentioned, is more of that of a bay dog than some of the other NK breeds where they are known to bay and catch. Given the right circumstance, a Kai will catch too, but they have to feel as tho they are overpowering the animal - and so you usually will only see a Kai "catch" if they are working in a group.
Same rules apply with fights among themselves. I've noticed that a group of male Kai are more likely to engage another dog than they would if they are alone w/o other male Kai around.
Thanks!
I would think the real candidate from NKs for PPD dog would be an Akita, probably an AA, though I still suspect they are not the best bet either. (But we do have the video somewhere about the AA as a PPD...though it looked a lazy Akita, which is typical!) But I suspect the Akita is on the list of banned dogs....