I know it sounds silly, but what about blacking out that info in the notes section? It seems to do more harm than good and if anyone asks you could say that it came like that.
Could also get a titer done as proof that your dog is protected.
@Calia- I 'fixed' it LOL Suddenly they accepted it...just goes to show. I'm thinking about getting a titer done but idk if should get it done now or later.
@Losech- Its incredibly stupid. And I spent a good hour on the phone with them arguing about it. They told me they would not remove the recommendations because it went against what they practiced. And that they wouldnt be able to say that he's covered or safe to be around other dogs until he's gotten the last of the vaccines.
Its a shame I was so pleased with this place otherwise. Im thinking about looking at other vets.
Get a new vet for sure. Overvaccinating your dogs is not good for them, and if they insist on this, you don't want to do business with them. What asses!
I was looking in to titers the other day for Mosura. My mom's vet wants to charge $300 for DHPP titer! Holy crap, is that normal?! I expected it to cost about as much as the vaccinations itself.
@ PoeticDragon: for comparison, it's usually around $100 for us. Are you sure they are not including cbc and exam costs in there?
@ Dragonfly: Take a look at the link to holistic practitioners (I believe there are some in your area), I think those individuals may give you a little more flexibility and could address the concerns a little better. Holistic vets are not all one or nothing so they typically balance things out.
@PoeticDragon, I got distemper (and maybe Parvo, can't remember) titers done when we were giving two of the pups rabies boosters. Cost $75 per dog, and Long Island is generally pricier than most other areas. You might want to get more info on that quote and see if they'll give you a break down of what is done.
How long is a titer considered valid? Do you have to do them every year? The science is good but the price is really prohibitive to the effort of getting more people to not over-vaccinate dogs. A rabies shot is "good" for 3 years, and you pay $xx for it. But if you have to titer every year for $100 a test, plus titers for whatever else, ie: DHPP, I see why titers wont be all the rage anytime soon. A cheaper titer is what's needed if this is going to go anywhere with the general dog owning population and for that matter- with the attitude of vets who serve them. You can't blame a vet for making some assumptions when you consider the vast vast majority of their clients' desires and education on dog health. Most of them are NOT like us. A vet should remain open to educated clients but too many walk through the door wanting to pay as little as possible, "just give me the shot, I feed her Beneful, I didnt notice the lump, shes been shaking her head and scratching that ear for weeks, I thought it would just go away on it own, Ive already spent too much on this dog, I coudl buy a whole new dog for that price, she rides in the bed of my truck and she's trained to stay, so I never thought what if some other car hit ME" I see why many vets become jaded. ( I used to take long bike rides with a veterinarian neighbor- she had MANY peeves about pet owners and bad science)
How long is a titer considered valid? Do you have to do them every year?
@ wryly:
We get ours done yearly at a wellness exam (we also have a few geriatric dogs that require a bit more medical attention) and so far so good we have not had to revaccinate. As I understand the titers do not cover for every type of vaccine immunization, just Parvo and Distemper, and possibly Rabies for those areas that legally allow that.. There may be others vaccs that are titered but I have not been informed of it.
How long is it valid
, this is a good question…..It is subjective. I have been told point blank by one vet, that titer results are "crap" and not worth the info the day after it is done. It was explained that immunity could drop at any time….blah blah blah. IMHO same could happen with of the vaccs, so I don't fully buy into that argument.
Generally speaking there are quite a few more vacc you could give on top of the basic line up too. Sadly boarding/and or training facilities actually seem to dictate what the protocol will be in a region, probably due to liability and rumors of breakout of random diseases… Many pet owners won't argue it since they are between a rock and a hard place if they need day care or boarding …. basically forced into the "required" line up.
I agree, expense for titer is an issue (perhaps inflated to make up for costs the clinic may lose over the long haul). I know much younger starting out titer cost would have been prohibitive early in my career…. For the average family it's really much cheaper to have the shots and shut up about it and come back every three years for the immunization visits.
Oh and about Dr. Dodds....if you want to see a few vets get their nickers in a twist, just ask them to take a blood sample to be sent to Jean Dodds (lol). There more than likely will be a charge for it and more than you will have to tussle to get them to fill the vials.
Brace yourself for this one, then- my Banfield vet (when I lived in Massachusetts) gave me no static what so ever about sending Sage's blood to Dr Dodds. He was a great vet though, and we had great respect for each other - he was super handling Sage, and I think he really enjoyed having a client who asked good questions and did her homework. From what I hear, he is probably the exception to chain vets, though.
Bainfield...that's pretty amazing. I would say he/she is the exception, chain or not.....we need to clone that vet (lol).
Honestly you really have to be prepared for whatever they may throw at you. There is a balance when you find the right one....Basically advocate for your dog(s) like you would do for your kids. Change does not happen in a vacuum. I know some of the training centers here are a bit more flexible so the titers are being honored if there is proof of initial vaccs (three rounds).
I'll test out a new vet by asking them to send bloodwork there. No beating around the bush this time. I feel like I need to go in for an interview with vets BEFORE I pick them. Anyone else think that would be weird..but unusually necessary it seems like.
Honestly you really have to be prepared for whatever they may throw at you. There is a balance when you find the right one....Basically advocate for your dog(s) like you would do for your kids. Change does not happen in a vacuum. I know some of the training centers here are a bit more flexible so the titers are being honored if there is proof of initial vaccs (three rounds).
With my sisters Kai we had a good friend of ours who's a vet tech do all of her shots and kept a record on a getto looking piece of paper of all 3 of her vaccines. We just peeled off the labels on the vials and stuck them on there with the date given, along with dates/doses of wormers. My sister took her to training classes at petsmart and they accepted the vaccine labels no problem. We got the rabies done by a vet but they've never had a problem with her vaccs!
I'm going to call around and compare prices/info on titers. I'm curious as to what one vet has to say vs. another, or if I hear the same speach every time.
Talking with other dog owners in your area really helps whittle it down. Get that word of mouth thing working for you Ask your puppy trainer who they take their dogs to, or pet sitters, dog walkers...who do they use for a vet. Its a huge task to work the phone book.
Yeah, my vet got a bit upset when I asked to send they thyroid testing to Dr. Dodds, but we agreed to disagree.
I don't know how long the titer results last legally, but in the vaccinations thread, the top canine immunologist in the US says he believes that in most cases, the dogs have lifetime immunity after a certain amount of time (I don't remember exactly--the video is around here, but I think it was after having two years with of vaccinations) so frankly, I don't even bother with titer testing yearly unless you have to (for boarding or classes, etc).
Toby, who will be 10 on Saturday, has not had any more vaccinations (except the required rabies), for about 4-5 years now. I have never titer tested him, either, because he doesn't get boarded. He's had some bad reactions, and my very old school vet just said they don't think he needs it--he's had plenty of vaccinations in his life and probably has a good immunity. And when Zora had the bad reaction to the DHLP, they said we'll simply write a letter stating further vaccinations would be hazardous to her health, and be done with it for those. They believe that dogs do mostly, have lifetime immunity after the vaccinations at a year. (Since we now think it was the lepto she reacted to, I will probably revaccinate her at 1 year of age without the lepto and then no more, except for rabies).
I think the length of a titer depends on the dog and how they built immunity to that specific disease. I remember reading something that stated that the type of exposure (modified live vaccine, dead microbe vaccine, getting sick, etc) to a virus can affect the duration of immunity, and that actually surviving getting sick offered the longest duration.
I also remember hearing that the results of a titer can tell you the duration of immunity, that the more antibodies they find in the sample, the longer the immunity lasts. And that if the antibodies are below a certain amount, it is advisable to get re-vaccinated to boost them back up.
I think 'good for' is also an administrative condition- ie: as Town Clerk, I register dogs for their licenses, and the purpose of licensing dogs is largely for the state to track rabies compliance- the fees collected go to fund VSNIP (a low cost spay/neuter program) and Rabies education/management programs in the state. However I attended a dog laws workshop last year and asked the lawyer about accepting rabies titers, and he said as the law is currently written in this state, a titer is not acceptable, only vaccination. This sucks for me, as I -personally- know/value what a titer is, but the state ties my hands about accepting a titer for license registration- so in that sense, a titer may be "good for" and accepted by some things (like taking a class) but not others (like licensing).
Having read Beth's link- I see that some states are still struggling to accept the 3 year rabies vax, vs the 1 or 2 year, so I guess by that measure, VT is doing well since we accept the 3 year.
I actually care about my dogs not picking up parvo/distemper, far more than licensing, classes, or kenneling. I want to know how long a titer is "good for" for that reason only.
I actually care about my dogs not picking up parvo/distemper, far more than licensing, classes, or kenneling.
Well, of course. I'm just adding to the breadth of the topic, here, not 'not-caring' about dogs picking up diseases. My point is only that even if a rabies titer proves the dog is immune for 7 years, until laws catch up even the most accommodating states will require a vaccination after 3 years.
"What do I do if the titer shows that my pet has immunity? If your pet’s titer levels show that an adequate immune memory has been established, you do not need to create the potential for vaccinosis by introducing unnecessary antigen, adjuvant, and preservatives into his body via booster vaccines. Instead, skip the boosters and have your dog re-titered in three years."
"What if the titer test is negative? Interpreting titers correctly depends upon the disease in question. Some titers must reach a certain level to indicate immunity, but with the clinically important “core” diseases vaccines, the presence of any measurable antibody indicates protection.
A positive titer test result is fairly straightforward, but a negative titer test result can be more difficult to interpret. This is because a negative titer is not the same thing as a zero titer, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that the animal is unprotected. A negative result usually means that the titer has failed to reach a desired threshold antibody level, but a low titer may still mean that the dog is protected upon exposure, as it doesn’t reflect tissue levels of immunity."
So according to her article, a titer that shows a dog being sufficiently immune is 'good for' 3 years before having to retake it.
Comments
Could also get a titer done as proof that your dog is protected.
@Losech- Its incredibly stupid. And I spent a good hour on the phone with them arguing about it. They told me they would not remove the recommendations because it went against what they practiced. And that they wouldnt be able to say that he's covered or safe to be around other dogs until he's gotten the last of the vaccines.
Its a shame
@ Dragonfly: Take a look at the link to holistic practitioners (I believe there are some in your area), I think those individuals may give you a little more flexibility and could address the concerns a little better. Holistic vets are not all one or nothing so they typically balance things out.
Snf
Prices here:
http://labordatenbank.com/cake/hemopet/samples/hemopet_form
We get ours done yearly at a wellness exam (we also have a few geriatric dogs that require a bit more medical attention) and so far so good we have not had to revaccinate. As I understand the titers do not cover for every type of vaccine immunization, just Parvo and Distemper, and possibly Rabies for those areas that legally allow that.. There may be others vaccs that are titered but I have not been informed of it. , this is a good question…..It is subjective. I have been told point blank by one vet, that titer results are "crap" and not worth the info the day after it is done. It was explained that immunity could drop at any time….blah blah blah. IMHO same could happen with of the vaccs, so I don't fully buy into that argument.
Generally speaking there are quite a few more vacc you could give on top of the basic line up too. Sadly boarding/and or training facilities actually seem to dictate what the protocol will be in a region, probably due to liability and rumors of breakout of random diseases… Many pet owners won't argue it since they are between a rock and a hard place if they need day care or boarding …. basically forced into the "required" line up.
I agree, expense for titer is an issue (perhaps inflated to make up for costs the clinic may lose over the long haul). I know much younger starting out titer cost would have been prohibitive early in my career…. For the average family it's really much cheaper to have the shots and shut up about it and come back every three years for the immunization visits.
Oh and about Dr. Dodds....if you want to see a few vets get their nickers in a twist, just ask them to take a blood sample to be sent to Jean Dodds (lol). There more than likely will be a charge for it and more than you will have to tussle to get them to fill the vials.
Snf
Honestly you really have to be prepared for whatever they may throw at you. There is a balance when you find the right one....Basically advocate for your dog(s) like you would do for your kids. Change does not happen in a vacuum. I know some of the training centers here are a bit more flexible so the titers are being honored if there is proof of initial vaccs (three rounds).
Snf
With my sisters Kai we had a good friend of ours who's a vet tech do all of her shots and kept a record on a getto looking piece of paper of all 3 of her vaccines. We just peeled off the labels on the vials and stuck them on there with the date given, along with dates/doses of wormers. My sister took her to training classes at petsmart and they accepted the vaccine labels no problem. We got the rabies done by a vet but they've never had a problem with her vaccs!
I'm going to call around and compare prices/info on titers. I'm curious as to what one vet has to say vs. another, or if I hear the same speach every time.
I don't know how long the titer results last legally, but in the vaccinations thread, the top canine immunologist in the US says he believes that in most cases, the dogs have lifetime immunity after a certain amount of time (I don't remember exactly--the video is around here, but I think it was after having two years with of vaccinations) so frankly, I don't even bother with titer testing yearly unless you have to (for boarding or classes, etc).
Toby, who will be 10 on Saturday, has not had any more vaccinations (except the required rabies), for about 4-5 years now. I have never titer tested him, either, because he doesn't get boarded. He's had some bad reactions, and my very old school vet just said they don't think he needs it--he's had plenty of vaccinations in his life and probably has a good immunity. And when Zora had the bad reaction to the DHLP, they said we'll simply write a letter stating further vaccinations would be hazardous to her health, and be done with it for those. They believe that dogs do mostly, have lifetime immunity after the vaccinations at a year. (Since we now think it was the lepto she reacted to, I will probably revaccinate her at 1 year of age without the lepto and then no more, except for rabies).
I also remember hearing that the results of a titer can tell you the duration of immunity, that the more antibodies they find in the sample, the longer the immunity lasts. And that if the antibodies are below a certain amount, it is advisable to get re-vaccinated to boost them back up.
And another interesting article I found: http://truth4pets.org/2012/06/titer-testing/
Having read Beth's link- I see that some states are still struggling to accept the 3 year rabies vax, vs the 1 or 2 year, so I guess by that measure, VT is doing well since we accept the 3 year.
Poetic Dragon….Yes, please report back on Dodds seminar after you have attended.
Snf
"What do I do if the titer shows that my pet has immunity?
If your pet’s titer levels show that an adequate immune memory has been established, you do not need to create the potential for vaccinosis by introducing unnecessary antigen, adjuvant, and preservatives into his body via booster vaccines. Instead, skip the boosters and have your dog re-titered in three years."
"What if the titer test is negative?
Interpreting titers correctly depends upon the disease in question. Some titers must reach a certain level to indicate immunity, but with the clinically important “core” diseases vaccines, the presence of any measurable antibody indicates protection.
A positive titer test result is fairly straightforward, but a negative titer test result can be more difficult to interpret. This is because a negative titer is not the same thing as a zero titer, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that the animal is unprotected. A negative result usually means that the titer has failed to reach a desired threshold antibody level, but a low titer may still mean that the dog is protected upon exposure, as it doesn’t reflect tissue levels of immunity."
So according to her article, a titer that shows a dog being sufficiently immune is 'good for' 3 years before having to retake it.