Neutering early = poor doggy manners

NavyDog

So this topic got brought up in a different thread but I wanted to get some more theories/opinions on it. I think it was Brad that said it, that when a dog is neutered as a puppy, it doesn't mature hormonally enough to understand some of the body language of intact dogs.
We've been helping our trainer work with a Jack Russell x chi-weenie that is very dog reactive. She asked us to help since Yucca is very good at greeting a dog appropriately because she acts in a complimentary way to the other dogs body language. It's been great so far & it is really benefiting the other dog. However, today once our session was over, a dog from the next class came in, a 6 month old fixed male pitty. He immediately barged right in to Yucca's face & jumped all over her. She first stiffened & hackled up then tried to push him back. We were able to seperate them but after a couple lunges, the pitty broke loose from the owner & charged right back into Yucca's face. This time Yucca snapped once at him before the owner grabbed him. I've never seen Yucca show her teeth before & I'm not upset. She did nothing wrong. She showed him signs that she was uncomfortable & he still pushed her too far. Could this be a case of him not understanding her body language because he was neutered before hitting maturity? Or just some dogs get it and others don't?

Losech

Maybe, or maybe he wasn't socialized with other dogs as a pup well, or maybe 'cause he's a Jack Russell x Chihuahua and neither of those breeds are generally "well mannered" dogs. Or maybe all three.

I'd like to see a well-done study on intact vs altered dogs and their behavior. I've seen behavior mentioned a few times in a couple studies on intact and altered dogs, but none that go into good detail on it.

MapleTwinkie

I think some dogs just don't get it. It could be that they're young (puppies) or just completely inept at interpreting cues.

Saigo will put up with an aggressive dog for some time, he'll usually walk away from them but if they continue, Saigo will growl and bark at them. He gets it that some dogs need to be "told" while other dogs get the message the first time.

BearMom

I don't think this is a case of not understanding body language because of early neutering. The pit is 6 months old...a lot of puppies whether neutered or not are considered annoying and obnoxious by adult dogs. That's why it is very common for many adults to not like puppies. Or as MapleTwinkie mentioned, some dogs just don't get it.

NavyDog

That would make sense too. He seemed to be going through a rough adolescence.

ayk

I've heard an observation that a pup/dog needs to be socialized with neutered males AND intact males, but it was attributed to how the intact males smell differently than neutered males.

I've noticed that my old Jindo, who was neutered around 4 yrs old of age and knew what the male bits are for, reacted to one particular intact male Jindo at a picnic. The other males, both neutered and intact, didn't get his goat but this one did.

A few months later, he met the dog again with no reaction.

The only significant difference I could tell is that this intact male had been recently used for breeding before the picnic.

MirkaM

I have seen that my mum's Schipperkes don't get my Kais body language at all. They basically don't understand my dogs. None of them is neutered so could it be that some little dogs just don't know how to read bigger dogs?

tjbart17

My male Kai was neutered at five months old and I guarantee that he reads body language of other dogs better than any dog on this forum. I know that's an extreme statement, but anyone who has met him would agree. My female who was spayed at a year old after a heat sucks at reading body language. This is just my experience.

NavyDog

The little dogs & big dogs understanding each other is another interesting theory. I wonder how much size, gender & breed play a role in how dogs communicate. Age is of course a huge factor specially in the situation we had with Yucca and the pit pup but I remembered the comment about neutering being a factor & was hoping to hear more to that theory. I've never really thought about how neutering changes how a dog interacts though like @ayk said, its just their smell that changes but smell is also used by dogs to communicate. The scents a dog puts out can say so much about a dog. Stress level, fear, & sexual maturity can be smelled by other dogs so does altering a dog at a young age, change the dogs ability to put out this information by scent? The dog could still communicate visually but since a dogs sense of smell is stronger, could this be something that could impact their ability to effectively communicate?

BradA1878

Just to be clear, what I was saying in the other post is that early-neutered males who are not socialized with intact males will tend to act differently toward neutered males due to the difference in their testosterone level. And this can cause conflict.

I also said that, IMHO, early-neutered males do not hit sexual maturity the way intact males do, and so always act a bit more "puppy" than intact males.