Off leash hiking?
I looked around but didn't find a thread specific to taking a dog out for the first time off leash hiking, what people feel they need to have first, what they don't, what helps calm the jitters. Can someone point me at it?
Comments
https://www.google.com/search?q=off+leash+site:nihonken.org&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
Have you worked with your pups off leash around the yard and other areas yet? If not, I would definitely do that first. (You have Nazo and Chibi, right?)
Every time Nazo checks in, shower him with good treats, you want him to think coming back to you often is well worth it, even after rolling in a squirrel carcass or deer poop.
Also, I'd start working a long distance recall device, like a whistle or similar. It can be really helpful in the future. Also, I use a "bear bell", basically a small cowbell to make me feel better. If I call Hanzo I can hear him getting closer and generally what direction he's in.
I also put a bear bell on Tavi so I can keep track of her. Shes never run off but it is more of a warning for perhaps any other hikers (I try to go to the most remote places possible so I don't bother anyone).
I let them drag leashes as puppies. not really even a leash, but like a 10 ft long piece of yarn.
ALWAYS take plenty of treats. Sometimes I go through 10+ cheese sticks while we're out. Really. The worst moment is when your dog does an amazing recall or checks in with a distraction and you have nothing to reward them with.
Hi Hanzo!
My Border Collie mix, on the other hand, might be able to because his recall is really strong, but my NK taught him to hunt animals too so it's weird. I feel more comfortable with them close by me. We have lots of snakes and gators in Florida.
What kind of lead would people recommend for giving their dog the freedom to roam but still being on leash?
I used to be very casual about it (it appalls me now). Sometimes my dogs ran off and it tooks hours to find them. One nearly was hit running in a road. Years and years ago, when I was young and had my first Akita, we let her off leash and she chased some cows and wouldn't come back, and we were just lucky she wasn't shot. What was I thinking? I don't think I WAS thinking.
I've been ok in more controlled situations on long trails with letting some dogs off leash, but still, not sure why I thought it was ok: Shibas ran off and I had to wait for them to get bored and come back. My GSD was my only truly off leash dog, but he was super sticky, and was annoying off leash (he'd nip at our ankles to "herd" us together) and he was big and scared people we met on the trail because his greeting was an excited bark and a rush up to be petted (but how would people know that?).
All around, a bad idea unless you really have a dog that is good off leash and has flawless recall, even if there are distractions. Most people do not.
That said, I work on the ones who can do it a bit, in very controlled environments. There's one trail that I walk that is one way in, one way out, and you know if someone is on it ahead of you. If there isn't someone on the trail, I've let my Kai boy offleash, since he's pretty good off lead because of agility. However, I will never do it again. Since then, I saw him literally lose it on a different trail when we ran into a horse. He was so scared he tried to bolt and didn't respond to me or to my friend (who he didn't even recognize after his scare!). I realized if he got that spooked again, and was off leash, I'd never see him again. the risk is not worth it to me.
My Akita girl is probably my best bet now for possible off leash hikes in very controlled environments (so rarely, in other words). She is sticky (in fact, she doesn't like to be alone at all). When we've tried, she doesn't want to go far at all. But I don't trust if there were a big distraction. She's not super prey driven, so animals aren't a distraction for her, but she is an Akita and other dogs might be a problem, and she'd be scary to people too, esp. as she tends to bark at people.
So....I think, mostly, it's a no for us. And I encounter way more people with off leash dogs that shouldn't have them offleash hiking than I encounter people whose dogs are ok with it. There's a handful I've seen with good recalls who have not been a problem, but the vast majority I encounter have dogs who are completely ignoring their people, and causing annoyances for other people.
If you want something heavier duty or longer term, that doesn't pick up debris or water, check out this site http://www.permatack.com/permatack_covey_rise_cd_003.htm I originally heard about it from @wrylybrindle on this forum somewhere and when I need to put Hanzo on a long line, it's worked great. Just be aware that it's not chew proof.
I don't think every dog is suited for off leash work and most will never be off-leash due to their parent's worry, area circumstances, personality, temperament and prey drive. I've been really lucky with Hanzo and started training him since I got him home at 10 weeks. I definitely would wait out the fear phase. It's better they don't experience anything new or potentially scary at that time. I missed the signs with Hanzo for his second fear phase and he became afraid of tile/concrete floors inside stores or buildings and stairwells in buildings. He's mostly gotten over the first with a lot of work and still hates the second since I haven't worked with him as much on that. Thankfully his outdoor skills keep us outdoors most of the time anyway.
I worked with him on off-leash training anywhere between 5-10 hours a week in various parks, hikes, or campgrounds. I'd get the highest reward of food that I could possibly think of that he'd immediately devour, and would always make it a positive experience. There are times where he runs off farther than I'd like on hikes, but he always snaps back when I call his name—I make sure not to re-use his name over and over again, so when I call for him, he knows it's important.
However, I do not fully trust other dogs on hikes. I make absolute sure that I hold onto either his harness or leash him back up when we're going to cross paths with another dog as it can be unpredictable. There have been instances where he's growled at other dogs on trails and they do not adhere, so I grab onto him until they leave.
Otherwise, he's a sticky hiking dog. I've never had any worries or experiences of him bolting off and not returning. His prey drive is only particularly strong with small creatures; birds, he couldn't care less about.
And that's during a walk in a lifestyle center. Imagine her in the woods. She's twisted my back a few times when darting to the other side to chase an animal. I should take a video of her stalking.. She's kinda Border Collie-esque. I think she gets angry at me because her tag jingles and she isn't as stealthy.
I may try to work on off-leash training younger with my next dog, but it depends a lot on the dog and the trail resources I have available. A bell on the collar is something I'll definitely do, especially as my intention is to end up with a Kai and I'm sure they're even better at disappearing into a bush or long grass as my Lapphund was (similar size, and no near-white tan points or "skunk butt"!), plus it is reassuring to have some auditory clue of where they are.
All in all I liked the long web leash. I think I got it from the regular pet supply store--often I see them in with either the leashes, or any hunting dog stuff they carry. A little bulky when all folded up, but still manageable. Thick enough not to give me rope burns and easy to reel in. Substantial enough to actually hold her if she tried, for whatever reason, to go after something (she snapped a show lead once when I showed her in conformation, and that made me wary). I'd do something lighter with a puppy, though, and perhaps for a dog that didn't have a history of leash-snapping.
Either way, I carry a long line, extra leashes, and many different types of treats 90% of the time.
When Fionna (Kishu puppy) started to ignore her recall, I put her back on a longline, let her drag that, and started to do more intensive rewarding for her recalls. She got back on track very quickly. I suspect she'll have another "flare up" if I let her go, so now I just treat her like we're training every day. Which I think is the way it probably should be.
For my older dogs (Nami and TK), they came to me with a decent recall from their previous homes, but since they didn't have the same bond with me, I didn't (or don't, in Nami's case) let them off the leash at first. TK and I practiced for a couple months, every day, and he was very responsive. Our first off leash hike was on a trail he knew, I knew well, and didn't have many visitors or distractions. That, I think, is the best bet. Prepare to set the dog up for success, but plan for the "what if". I was armed with treats, a noose, several people to help me if he got away - we didn't mess around. The more important thing, though, is not to get frustrated or upset, IMO, when working with recall. If TK knows I'm getting amped, he gets amped, and when he's amped... he's an idiot.
Nami is worse with her distractions. She's hunting 110% of the time. She's never NOT going to be hunting, but she does have a decent recall and doesn't seem to like to leave my geeeeeeneral (very general) area. I think with Nami, she may cap off at some point and I'm just going to have to appreciate that she sticks with me, even if she darts off after something. That said, I may never be able to hike with Nami in areas close to civilization, which is ok, too. She's really a great dog and wants to please me, but her distractions and training have told her that it's ok to check this thing out or that thing out... and that's really ok by me. I'd like to get her off-lead this fall. We'll see if that happens.
I know my dogs well enough to know when and where they can be off leash. Even so, it's a risk every time. You have to know your dog and your own comfort level with risks. Also, know what your expectations are. My dogs follow me loosely in whatever direction I go, not closely, but close enough that I can see them. They dart off after things periodically and return within a few minutes. I only take them to remove areas with no one else around.
Long lines are also good. A middle-ground is dragging a long line, which doesn't keep them from running off, but makes them easier to catch.