Yuki Shikoku
Introducing Yuki. We picked him up in BC a couple days ago. He is settling in well. He is a chill little guy. Nothing fazes him, well except for car rides; he has the pukoku gene. Yuki is 11 weeks. His father is Yamato and his mother is Saki.
He is still working things out with the Chihuahua’s. He would love to play, they, not so much. They get on well in the yard though. Very funny watching him chase them around. Kind of like a battleship chasing a speed boat. He needs to work on changing direction.
I’m not sure he knows what to make of the cats, or the cats of him. Each is fascinated with the other. So far so good. They don’t run so he doesn’t chase.
He is still under house arrest for another 5 weeks. We have had a steady stream of people in to visit to help with his socialization. We are allowed to bring him out if we put a muzzle on him, but I haven’t had the heart to try yet. If anyone has any in-house socialization ideas, or suggestions for putting a muzzle on him let us know.
We are very excited and happy to have him here. I’m fairly sure he is the best dog in the universe ;-) Except for the gnawing on my shin part, but we will work on that.
Here are a few pics to get started. Two were taken before we got him. I’ll post some updates in this thread periodically.
He is still working things out with the Chihuahua’s. He would love to play, they, not so much. They get on well in the yard though. Very funny watching him chase them around. Kind of like a battleship chasing a speed boat. He needs to work on changing direction.
I’m not sure he knows what to make of the cats, or the cats of him. Each is fascinated with the other. So far so good. They don’t run so he doesn’t chase.
He is still under house arrest for another 5 weeks. We have had a steady stream of people in to visit to help with his socialization. We are allowed to bring him out if we put a muzzle on him, but I haven’t had the heart to try yet. If anyone has any in-house socialization ideas, or suggestions for putting a muzzle on him let us know.
We are very excited and happy to have him here. I’m fairly sure he is the best dog in the universe ;-) Except for the gnawing on my shin part, but we will work on that.
Here are a few pics to get started. Two were taken before we got him. I’ll post some updates in this thread periodically.
Comments
Jesse
CDC states that socialization isn't a good enough reason for granting confinement agreement, but we explained how important it would be to begin socialization prior to 16 weeks for a shikoku pup and they granted the agreement.
So good to hear that you were able to petition for that vital socialization. Just a shame that it has to be done with a muzzle, poor guy.
He is healthy, getting along OK with the cats and our other dogs, but he attacked a puppy in his first puppy class. His puppy free play privileges have been rescinded.
We brought him in to the training facility for an eval after the incident to see what options we have for additional training. One of the trainers brought her older dog in to see how Yuki would react, and he went full Cujo when the dog got close. Better when the dog was placed on the other side of a fence, but still growling and raised hackles, but not the vicious ball of fury display from before. The trainer initially said she didn't know if they could do anything as he was so aggressive, but backed off that a bit by the end of our eval.
I'm guessing the confinement has set us back, hopefully not permanently, but he didn't get any dog socialization other than our dogs, and the neighbors (through the fence) due to the confinement agreement. I'm hoping he is just unsure of himself right now and with a bit of time in the outside world he will realize he doesn't need to attack as a first option.
Our training facility has some intensive training classes for aggressive dogs which they think could help. They are trying to get us into the current one, but we may not be able to get into anything until March. My current plan is to take him as many places as possible and divert his attention when he gets agitated and to hopefully avoid situations where he gets too amped up. This is complicated slightly as he is now scared of the truck due to his car sickness.
If anyone has any other suggestions for dealing with this type of thing, I am all ears.
thanks
Rob
I think it's natural, to some degree, for the NK to be reactive - especially when restrained. My Shikoku is fairly friendly with other dogs, but he does NOT do well with other dogs if he is on leash or restrained - even if it's just a barrier like a fence. I'm sure the house-arrest style import rules didn't help his socialization, but at this point, I would work on just getting him used to new things instead of focusing on how social he is with other dogs. He IS probably quite anxious now that a whole new world has opened up to him. I think your plan is solid - just get him comfortable. Make sure he has good experiences, even if that means keeping trips short or going home earlier than intended. It's about him and his comfort level.
I know that some Shikoku tend to be very carsick. I hope someone will pipe up here for you on how to help him through that. My Shikoku is really good in the car, so I am very fortunate.
That sounds like a good approach to me. With some help from a trainer and lots of exposure to different situations he should grow out of that. Good luck!
I look forward to watching Rollo's brother grow up here. I'm dealing with a few things at the moment and am out of town a bunch so I promise I'll get a thread up soon about him.
I'm about to write a long post lol but I would rather explain add best as I can.I don't know if I can help directly with aggression, but more, how to understand your shikoku. My Takeo has peculiar preferences but I have learned to manage, so I'll try to explain:
When you say Yuki attacked the dog but plays fine at home with your dog, is it possible that Yuki plays rough at home and caught the other dog off guard? It's happened to me before, Takeo just likes to jump on/pounce right away, diving right into play so it catches other breeds off guard.
Agreed with above posts - they can have barrier frustration, so being on leash can cause issues too.
If you felt Yuki did sort of attack, do know that sometimes Shikoku's just don't like a certain other dog. That's just how it is... Its like children don't always make friends a with every other child, it happens! In my instance, after a series of reactions, I realize that Takeo doesn't like black dogs or shaggy dogs. I guess maybe because he can't read their faces, so I am more alert if I approach an oncoming dog.
If Yuki is making noises at other dogs, are they just Shikoku talking noises? Takeo made a lot of noise in dog class, wanting to play, staring at dogs -- the trainer/other owners thought he was aggressive growling but he wasn't. Its not a noise many people will understand, so you'll have to learn to read that along with body language to know if Yuki is bored/unhappy etc.
That dog class was very frustrating, as the trainer kept profiling Takeo as aggressive. I switched trainers/sessions because I felt Takeo was distracted and not learning. Wouldn't you know in the new class he acted the most focused! It really can be the room, the energy, the others around you. I also learned he needs a certain amount of space and prefers being outdoors not a class in a boring room. I also think they have a strong sense of, "that human doesn't like me" -- and it changes everything. So if the trainer thinks they're aggressive, your dog just might be uncomfortable too.
I think the interruption/distraction is a great idea. Keep it light, i.e. don't yell NOOO/smack Yuki/jerk on the leash. Sometimes the more you react the more the dog learns , "ah, mom/dad doesn't like them either! I'm doing the right thing".
I hope this helps, if Yuki is fine with your dogs at home he is still fairly socialized, so I don't think he would be very agressive. You can try to bring him to meet more dogs and see how it goes. Remember to be patient
I recall a thread on helping with carsickness somewhere on this forum...
Since everything is new to him, you may want to take it a little slower and not go the regular puppy class route. Shikoku can be picky with what dogs they get along with, and not everyone can understand that not every dog can be a Lab. Why not sign him up for a regular beginner's obedience at a facility with a big room? That way you can work with him around other dogs at a distance that he can be comfortable with, allowing for him to not have to feel pressured to deal with the other dogs while still have some positive experiences around them. This was beneficial to my Miyu, as she doesn't like interacting with dogs that she didn't know but allowed for her to learn to be comfortable around them. It boosted her confidence since she wasn't being pressured to socialize, and reduced her need to defend herself from them.
As far as car sickness goes, Miyu had it for a few months but eventually grew out of it. She does ride in the car almost every day, so I think that has helped get her body used to it. You could start with short rides around the block, and just slowly work up to longer rides. Though not the safest thing to do, I've found that Miyu puked less in the front seat than the back, and opening the window just enough for her to stuck her nose out seems to also help. Never had a car with working AC, but cold air is better for queasiness than warm or hot air.
The class is a puppy obedience class and is in a big open room where for the bulk of the class everyone has their own space. He has been fine with that, so I'm hopeful that continues and will help get him used to having dogs around. He will just not be allowed to do the free play that happens at the beginning of the class. We will likely show late so he doesn't get riled up with all the dogs running around. I'll also keep an eye out for outside classes to see if that helps.
So far I like the trainers, and Yuki interacts with them well and seems to like them. He is the first Shikoku they have ever seen, but they do have experience with Shiba's and Akita's so that should help.
No yelling or leash jerking, just either walking the other way, or some treats and sits. I guess I had a bad habit of petting him and telling him things were OK, so might have been reinforcing things for a bit. We just got back from a walk and he did well with the treats and sitting whenever we saw another dog, so I'm hopeful things will work out.
Regarding the car sickness, I have seen the thread on it. I tried ginger, which was a failed experiment, yet very amusing. He kept tasting it, and spitting it out and jumping around. I guess ginger is an acquired taste. Might have to try the ginger candy sometime. We also bought some homeopathic stuff at the pet store which didn't work.
I think I can turn my airbag off, so will try the front seat, although I need to find something waterproof as I didn't know a dog could produce so much drool. It's like a waterfall running off my back seat even after a short trip. The vet proscribed something to try which I might use if all else fails.
Thanks again for the help
http://m.petsmart.com/h5/hub?id=dog/seat-protectors/kurgo-bench-seat-cover-zid36-7614/cat-36-catid-100141?var_id=36-7614
I have some blue buffalo 'relaxing' jerky, too. I don't know if it helps or not but I give her one when I know we're headed out.
Just curious, when you drove back to WA from Canada, did they actually stop to check on Yuki? We drove Kiyomi back to Seattle, then flew from Seattle to San Francisco. The customs inspection coming back to the US at the border didn't even bother to check on her. Not sure if we were supposed to fill out customs forms for her, but if we were, then it didn't happen and they never asked.
As for the pukoku issue, he should grow out of it. Make sure you don't feed Yuki shortly before you have to go someplace. Kiyomi puked not more than a mile from Katja's house, but she had eaten about an hour before we picked her up. We noticed early on she didn't do well on trips with lots of turns and start/stops. She was much better on long freeway rides. She's just short of 10 mos and she hasn't had any issues for months and that includes a number of long trips to and from Los Angeles from the San Francisco bay area.
In retrospect, I wish we just brought him in, or just ignored the confinement agreement once we got here (they threaten jail time if the catch you ignoring it, but I doubt they ever check). He is doing better at puppy class, still a bit of growling, but I think getting him out and about earlier really would have helped.
We live at the top of a long curvy road, so I think he gets off to a bad start no matter where we go. Not feeding helps. He has to come to work with me tomorrow, so we will see how he does on the trip into Seattle.
I take to to classes specifically for reactivity, and in out first sessions we started off training a trigger word (or you could use a trigger, but the trainer asked us to use a word since some dogs were reactive to clickers). In Meitou's case, I use "Yep!" to mean "yay! Eat this yummy treat I want to stuff into your face to distract you from other things."
We started by having our dogs watch us. We were supposed to wait until they looked away and then made the choice to look back at us and yes "Yep," then immediately give a treat.
From this we worked up to peeking around objects at other dogs. As soon as Meitou noticed another dog it was "Yep!" and a treat as we turned and walked away back behind cover so he couldn't see the other dog.
Sometimes if Meitou gets too focused on another dog I do classical conditioning where I just pop treats into his mouth without worrying about the "Yep" because he needs the extra reinforcement of the treats.
Anyway, Meitou is now in a class where we walk around the city with other reactive dogs and anytime the dogs do anything good they get the "Yep" and treat type treatment. If a dog barks or growls, they get a treat for ignoring it or walking away with us; they get treats for being calm around other dogs; they get treats if another dog stares at them, etc.
That isn't really a great explanation, but I hope it helps.
Carrying yummy treats around with you is definitely a good thing.
I'm just putting this out there so you can be aware that this could be a possibility, and that if it turns out your pup is just not a social butterfly, it's not because of some failing on your part or the pup's. It may just be something you end up needing to manage.
I know I've experienced disappointment when I couldn't fix issues with my dogs, and I had hard time letting go of the idea that there must be something I could do. It lead to a lot of frustration in my relationship with my dogs, but once I let go of my preconceived notions of how my dog should turn out, I was able to relax and enjoy being together a lot more.
Anyways, good luck, and I hope you, your pup, and your trainers can figure this out.
The reason I ask is that your lifestyle and plans may not actually need him to be that social, and as TheWalrus has brought up he may just wind up being naturally dog reactive. Just as some people can be antisocial, so can some dogs. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to socialize him with dogs, but if meeting strange dogs isn't going to be a regular thing later on in his life then you really shouldn't stress too much if he doesn't wind up being super social. I personally think that you should focus more on his ability to pay attention and work with you around the other dogs, and not so much in him actually interacting with them.
My Miyu (who's actually half sibling to Yuki) is very picky about the dogs she gets along with. Although she lives with 3 other dogs and has gone to several obedience classes, she isn't really that interested in socializing with other dogs. Being able to attend an obedience class or a group hike without being upset the whole time is all that I need, I really don't need her to be all play with every dog she meets. She has her small social group (outside if housemates) that she interacts with once in a while, and we are both fine with that since she and I better know those dogs' personalities than any strange dog that happens to walk by.
When she greets other dogs, she tends to go directly to the dog's face and some dogs do not react well to this. If the other dog growls at her she goes right back at them and this is when things escalate because, she won't back down. The ones who don't mind, she is absolutely fine with. There are a few dogs, at the dog park, whom she has had issues with, but she has learned (with my intervention) to stay away from or ignore these dogs. I can usually tell if something is going to happen and step in to keep things from escalating. Doesn't happen often, but we always have to be aware. I guess this would be the "management" that @TheWalrus referred to. Kiyomi is still young and curious so there is still lots for us and her to learn. There has been definite progress for her so it's not hopeless.
Hopefully things will get better for Yuki as he is still a pup. Take things slowly and have fun.
So I would say our main goal at this point is to just get him used to other dogs being near him so he can mind his own business and they theirs. Right now it's hackles raised, growling and lunging, so if we can curb that a bit, we would be happy.
I do think its getting better though, its not the instant reaction it was at first. We also have him enrolled in a local "boot" camp where they will work with him every day and also work with us for a session at the end of each week. I think that will help tremendously. And if not, we will just do our best to keep him out of stressful encounters.
Otherwise he is doing great. First trip to the sound near work today. Seagulls, ducks, runners, smells. I think it fried his little puppy brain, so much to see and investigate. He hasn't moved for hours since we got home.
I'll see if I can find the post, but it is time he wouldn't necessarily be spending with us anyway. We have some one come in to watch him for a few hours while we are gone, or I've left him at a day care near work where he has his own space. I'm hoping that the interactions with the other dogs there will help more than the time away will hurt.
OK, found the thread. It looks like a bit of a different situation. That dog had fear issues and it was an away camp that wasn't using positive training methods.
We have worked with our facility in the past and they use only positive methods. We will also be working with him on all our normal training and games every evening. So does this sound like a situation which could benefit a Shikoku? I'm not looking for him to bond with anyone else, just to be put in more social situations than we can likely get him into, and to have some monitoring and instruction to keep those interactions positive.