What is the best all around dog of the Nihon Ken?
I am considering which of the Nihon Ken I should own (other than Shiba and Akita). I am used to Primitive dogs with high prey drive...I own Basenjis. I am hoping to find a breed I can eventually use in SAR but what I need to really look into is a breed that isn't typically dog aggressive. My male Basenji was thoroughly socialized and is great with most other dogs, as is my young female; so know the question isn't because they will not be properly socialized to other dogs. I've just noticed my male as he has gotten older has had less tolerance...and he is a VERY RUDE dog! Typical of primitive breeds I think. I'd also love a dog that can have good recall (obviously again, with training). I was looking at Kai, but now I am also considering Hokkaido thanks to cezieg's post. Any further insight is very welcome! Thank you everyone! 
Comments
Like @timkim asks, what makes you uninterested in Akita?
- Less likely to have dog aggression.
- Generally pretty good within a family dynamic (dogs and humans)
- Not particularly "game" dogs, but still like a good chase/hunt
- Love the woods, but also love to lay around
I'd love to say Kishu, but my experience so far is that the males can be pretty hard on other dogs. Hokkaido are a good one too, but can be a bit rough around the edges. Shikoku make great family dogs but can be pretty quarrelsome with other dogs.
I have two AAs, a Shiba and a Kai Ken, and the Kai gets along with everyone really well--he even made friends with my old, reactive Shiba who has never gotten along with other dogs. Kai are wonderful. And at this stage, probably easier to get than an Hokkaido, as the Hokka breeding program is still very much in its infancy in the US.
I think we'll always have Kai and Akitas now....a really good pairing!
I'd agree with Brad that Kai would make the ideal dog out of the two choices. At least, here in North America.
There really haven't been enough North American Hokkaido, in terms of quantity, to be able to really draw out an accurate overall picture. So, as much as I like the breed, I can't fully recommend Hokkaido with a really narrowed, accurate description of what the North American pups would be like.
@Krisz's pups will be very different from my pups I'm thinking, although I would be confident saying that Krisz's pups would be great SAR dogs on the same level as Brad's Kai.
You can also take a look at @Kitsusi's blog to see how great her Hokkaido, Toko, is at obedience, and I imagine that would transfer very well to SAR
www.hokkaidoni.blogspot.com
@shibamistress Brings up a good point too, that the record of success here has been Kai pairing up very well to any breed, while we still need to see a track record of that with Hokkaido. The only non-Kai pairing for Hokka here is Meitou.
Jesse
I don't say this randomly, just because most NK who end up running off to not come back do so after plane rides [ as adults. ]
Ignoring the shipping / constant moving part, I would vote Kai. They are very family / handler focused, in general, very good with other dogs, especially their "pack." [ however, they are the most flighty, especially in uncertain situations / having been uprooted / etc. as mentioned in my first paragraph ]
I would not go with a Shikoku or Kishu. While Kishu, I think, tend to have really good nerves, they are, more often then not, very dog aggressive / reactive. It has nothing to do with socialization, a good portion of the aggressive / reactive kishu were very socialized and good with other pups until they hit a certain age, then it's like a flip switches. Also, horrible recall, even when trained that way their whole life. [ though, I suppose, that also depends on what you consider "good recall" ]
With Shikoku, I would say they are more obedient then Kishu, and better off leash, but also have a high amount of anxiety and are not dog-social. The ones that are dog-social have a play style that is often considered "rude" even from dogs of their own or simillar breed, so without being aggressive, they can still cause fights / excessive arguments.
Personally, and I know you don't want to hear this, but a shiba from good lines, such as Lindsay's, or a nice Japanese Akita [ from Akiho ] would probably fit better, especially since these two breeds have made vast improvements in breeding / temperament / stability over the last few years, whereas the mediums sized NK [ Hokka, Shikoku, Kishu, Kai ] are still really being refined from what the Japanese like in their pups. [ which, while not a bad thing, is totally different then what we expect in a family companion vs a show prospect who is mostly kenneled or only taken out for hunting, hence the high fight/flight in the medium NK. Kai are more on the flight, I would wager, with Kishu & Shikoku being more on the fight ] ~
Certainly, I won't get a dog at all until I have a reasonably secure job and living situation and the time and money to do it right (and I'm far from the instability of active military). As deeply interested as I am in these breeds, and as much as I will be waiting at least another year and a half before getting a dog, I also know that it's likely I'll move within the 12-16 years of a healthy medium-sized dog's life unless I were to wait a decade or so (which is a possibility too, though it would almost definitely make the NK the second of a two-dog household by that point).
I don't think even the most confident Kai would be able to out do a well bred Shiba for sports/performance work (aside from deer hunting and being very sweet to their people of course), but I hear of some that are great with therapy 1:1 and are very resilient for performance. Kai like Brads Akashi and Tavi would probably be good for something like SAR. Imo though, I don't know that any of the NK would be really great at SAR, although I have come across many a Shiba that was excellent at therapy work and loved being outdoors having great recall, not quarrelsome, etc. You'll have a search ahead of you if you are wanting to do SAR, so I would not limit the breed to just certain NK.
For example, I think it's normal to move 2-3 times within a dog's lifetime, but not 4-7 times or more the way the military moves folks around. Also, driving with your pup is totally different, and MUCH LESS stressful then constantly shipping them. [ IE: Charlie, aka @cezieg just roadtripped from FL, to Missouri, to CA, to OR with his kai girl, picking up a hokka in CO and they were just fine ]
So it depends, IMHO. I think the nihon ken, especially the medium breeds, have just too much anxiety to be constantly shipped around [ as adults ]. On the other hand, my dutch shepherd's littermates travel often [ via shipping, at least 2x a year ] and take in stride, but they are bred to be less anxious, so it's no big deal.
Hence why I say it depends so much on the breed, the individual dog, the type of travel, how often, etc. I could see my NK [ a kishu girl, and a male shikoku, when he was alive ] doing fantastic traveling by car, but not so much constantly by plane. [ especially my shikoku boy, he would be traumatized ] ~
This is encouraging, then. I really only foresee moving by car, especially with an adult dog and especially with an anxious dog. I guess when I think about it, my stepmom had an extremely anxious and barely-socialized sheltie mix when she married my dad, and we took her on roadtrips (along with my fairly confident childhood dog) without a problem. I suppose it would be similar to conduct a move.
Thank you!
Actually, I had a shiba inu that was tentatively accepted into the SAR program, but they had too many applicants that year and had to choose, so of course they picked the breeds they were used to as they were safer. I understand where they're coming from, because it's a lot of effort to pour into a dog that no one typically considers doing that kind of work.
I'm positive that NK can do SAR, but my honest opinion is that if you haven't done SAR before, to start with a more common breed that is traditionally used. Reason being, you're inexperienced and you're going to rely on others to train you to train your dog. After you've had a dog or two that have done SAR, then I'd say go ahead and try with a NK. Alternatively, you can get a NK because that's the dog you want and just be OK with the fact that it may not work out with SAR (which is true of any dog, really, but your odds would be a lot better if you got say, a Malinois).
Anyway, as for which is the "best all around", I'd say that kai ken are the best for what people generally consider desirable traits for a family pet (was that diplomatic enough? I'm getting stink eye from my Shikoku).
I also seriously love shiba inu, though, if you get the right one. I mean, it depends on whether you find a smug attitude endearing or annoying, but my shiba inu was a fantastic family dog for me.
Are you excited about saving people? or are you just looking to do something unusual and noble with a brand-new-to-you dog breed? I sort of think that any NK who will be successful at something like SAR or as an assistance dog or avalanche dog- would need to be selected from a pool of dogs by someone who has experience with a lot of that breed, and do that activity. Remember that even dogs from guide dog breeding programs, bred from guide dog parents, go through training before being selected to continue and even then, many of them fail and go to pet homes as youngsters. So I think the odds of getting an NK breeder (who hasn't done SAR) to pick for you the best NK (who are general-purpose hunting dogs and not highly selected for the activity you want in the first place) to succeed at SAR in real life is much, much lower. It could happen, but if you are serious about finding lost people, and are new to both the breed and the activity, it's not really time to screw around. I agree with the above- learn on a dog that will make it the easiest on you both. Then when you have experience, try other breeds. I don't think you would give up a dog, but if you had an NK that failed at SAR, would you give up on SAR and try other activities with him, or is your determination to do SAR so great that you would keep the NK (with the basenjis of course) and then go get a Dutch Shepherd?
I think NK CAN do unusual activities with a high rate of consistency, but nobody's life is riding on a Kai's agility Q or his likelihood of beating the border collie's time.
Some day I may use a NK for SAR, because some day I'll have the experience and maybe I'll let some of the kai breeders know what I'm looking for and they'll keep me in mind and maybe after a while, they'll have a litter with a pup that's a good candidate.
Even then, the handlers have to know their dogs and know if they're not performing. Even an experienced dog and handler can have a bad day, then the handler just has to tell the search coordinator, "Sorry, we're out for today." You can tell when a dog is working and when they're dicking around in the woods (NK love to dick around in the woods).
I still did the 40 hour SAR training that people have to do, because you can volunteer without a dog as well. It's a great way to volunteer and be outdoors regardless.
They are the most obedience and most owner focused from all NK breeds
I'm going to have to side with Lindsay on this one, but whole-heartedly agree that a well-bred Shiba from good lines will make all the difference.
I have met many Kai and love them, but having a Shiba that is not only well-socialized but also has amazing recall has made me a bit biased. Again, it's highly dependent on the individual...