That thread describes my ongoing effort to train my Kai to be a bird dog. Kai, like the Shikoku, are big game hunters by breeding. It has been a LOT of fun for both of us so far. But, as great a hunting companion as Ty may end up being, he will never be what I would call a "good" bird dog. His instincts are all wrong for it. The style of hunting that big game dogs do has them looking for heavy scent trails that cover long distances. Their game are large and can be spotted from a distance. Bird dogs, by comparison, are essentially looking for a needle in a haystack. It is not unusual to walk within inches of a bird and not notice it. Even a purpose-bred bird dog may miss a well-covered bird. Further, there are retrieving issues to overcome with big game dogs. Shikoku and Kai are both bay dogs by nature. That means they bark and hold, but will catch (meaning bite and hold) if they feel strong enough relative to their game. That means they tend to have very hard mouths and their instincts are to keep their game in place, rather than return it to you. It's an ongoing process for me to keep Tyson's mouth soft so he doesn't chew birds and refuse to retrieve them.
So, I'll be the first to tell you that with time, effort, patience, reasonable expectations, and often a bit of money you can do just about anything you want with your dog. But, if you really want a dog that's going to learn blind retrieves easily, will swim 100 yards in 30 degree water to retrieve a winged duck, will point or flush upland birds happily and retrieve them to hand, then a Shikoku or Kai is probably not the best dog for you. You can definitely get out and have fun hunting birds with your dog, but don't expect them to ever compare to a dog that was bred specifically to hunt birds. You'd just be setting yourself up to be disappointed.
i was afraid that NK wouldnt be good bird dogs. i just wanted to know if id be able to train the dog to retrieve but it isnt the main reason for me to have a shikokou. i just want to try to duck hunt in the future and it would be nice if he/she could retrieve game in the water if the hunt should prove successful.
great job on training your dog! it was a very interesting read and it sure takes a lot of work and dedication. i will definitely keep checking on that thread to see your progress! keep up the good work! btw would u say he is a strong swimmer?
He is still a puppy, so he doesn't have the stamina to swim very far too often. He has retrieved from the water up to about 40 yards and then he was done for the day. So, to answer your question, no Tyson is not an especially strong swimmer. But as he matures and as I slim him down a bit he might become a slightly stronger swimmer. I doubt he wool ever rival a lab or cheassy I'm the water though.
A duck dog I'm particular I think would new very hard to turn your Shikoku into. The main reason is that they are chase hounds by nature. They don't get their primary satisfaction from retrieving downed game, but from chasing live game. So they may not have the motivation to enter near freezing water in the winter to retrieve something they never got to chase while it was alive.
I agree with "TheWalrus" and having taken my Shikoku off leash on many, many hikes in heavily wooded, and mountainous areas, I can say that it takes a lot of initial training from puppyhood to after the prey drive kicks in around 6mo to 1 yr old. Banshee knows and responds well to the come, heel, and "leave it" command. I have had him unexpectedly chase wild hogs we came across in the woods, and disappeared for 4 hours. He returned to the main trail and appeared to be heading back to the entrance of the area where my car was parked. I have also been walking him off leash in my neighborhood and seen a cat running, which initiated his prey drive and he broke from heeling and started to chase at which point I commanded "leave it" and he stopped in his tracts and came back to me. I would say if he was to chase an animal and I was to allow him to continue his chase, he would go too far to track back and would attempt to navigate to somewhere familiar if possible; however, if unfamiliar with the area, he would likely stay lost. For that reason, I bought him a Garmin GPS collar that he wears when I go on long or overnight hikes. It is an investment ($500.00US) but definitely worth the money for a priceless doggy.
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That thread describes my ongoing effort to train my Kai to be a bird dog. Kai, like the Shikoku, are big game hunters by breeding. It has been a LOT of fun for both of us so far. But, as great a hunting companion as Ty may end up being, he will never be what I would call a "good" bird dog. His instincts are all wrong for it. The style of hunting that big game dogs do has them looking for heavy scent trails that cover long distances. Their game are large and can be spotted from a distance. Bird dogs, by comparison, are essentially looking for a needle in a haystack. It is not unusual to walk within inches of a bird and not notice it. Even a purpose-bred bird dog may miss a well-covered bird. Further, there are retrieving issues to overcome with big game dogs. Shikoku and Kai are both bay dogs by nature. That means they bark and hold, but will catch (meaning bite and hold) if they feel strong enough relative to their game. That means they tend to have very hard mouths and their instincts are to keep their game in place, rather than return it to you. It's an ongoing process for me to keep Tyson's mouth soft so he doesn't chew birds and refuse to retrieve them.
So, I'll be the first to tell you that with time, effort, patience, reasonable expectations, and often a bit of money you can do just about anything you want with your dog. But, if you really want a dog that's going to learn blind retrieves easily, will swim 100 yards in 30 degree water to retrieve a winged duck, will point or flush upland birds happily and retrieve them to hand, then a Shikoku or Kai is probably not the best dog for you. You can definitely get out and have fun hunting birds with your dog, but don't expect them to ever compare to a dog that was bred specifically to hunt birds. You'd just be setting yourself up to be disappointed.
great job on training your dog! it was a very interesting read and it sure takes a lot of work and dedication. i will definitely keep checking on that thread to see your progress! keep up the good work!
btw would u say he is a strong swimmer?
A duck dog I'm particular I think would new very hard to turn your Shikoku into. The main reason is that they are chase hounds by nature. They don't get their primary satisfaction from retrieving downed game, but from chasing live game. So they may not have the motivation to enter near freezing water in the winter to retrieve something they never got to chase while it was alive.