I found this guy on a site while dumpster diving through the internet - I really like him - his coloring and his body/head/stance are really cool. I wish the picture was a bit larger.
I was told recently that there's no one actively promoting any colored Kishu lines and the preferred show color in the Kishu is white (and that this is the only color seen in shows). I understand that the majority of them are white, but I wasn't aware that the colored Kishu just flat out weren't preferred. Is this true? It seems a shame to lose the colors altogether and I see that at least the first dog and the red dog are at a show (as well as maybe that last one I posted?).
Maybe @TheWalrus would know better than anyone... but how well do the Yushoku Kishu do in shows in Japan? Is it true that most of the colored dogs are unregistered hunting dogs?
I'd like to know a lot more about the Kishu than I do, and the Yushoku Kishu are still so mysterious to me!
There are a number of kennels that I know of that show non white kishus in Japan. Not sure on the actual standard but I have seen yushoku kishu at shows and I remember seeing a few that placed fairly high. But the majority is white but there are people working at the continuation of the yushoku kishu (the original kishu).
I actually talked about Yushoku Kishu with a gentleman the other day at the NIPPO Chiba branch end of year party. His Kishu won the Prime Minister Award (Best in Show at the National) a while ago, and has been instrumental since in helping to raise the level of the breed in the Kanto region.
Basically he agreed with what I've posted before, that Yushoku Kishu were probably in the majority, but the emergence of some very nice quality white Kishu led to the breed's swing toward white. There weren't very many quality Yushoku dogs he says, so breeders used the white lines more, plus there was the added preference of hunters toward white dogs. My opinion has been that hunters preferring white dogs could not have affected the breed too drastically, but I did realize after this conversation that even non working kennels on hearing things like this, would then lean even more toward the white dogs. Perception is a powerful thing.
Today there are still Yushoku Kishu shown, but I have yet to see a really outstanding specimen. Usually color is poor, or conformation is poor, or both. There have also been cases where kennels have been caught breeding Shikoku to white Kishu to create Yushoku Kishu. This gentleman told me of a dog who was doing very well in the ring that was found to be a mix. Again, perception plays a part, and Yushoku lines could be looked at with a bit of suspicion. You add the fact that there aren't really very many good show type Yushoku, and a bit of possible stigma attached to them, and you can understand why they don't show very well. Numbers are just extremely low as well.
Officially, there is no preference in NIPPO toward white or yushoku in the ring. There are kennels that focus on preserving them, and I'm sure there must be dogs who have placed well. Lastly, there are yushoku working lines, but unregistered lines usually means that there is a bit of other local dogs and breeds in there as well. There is obviously no registry, so no definite way of saying exactly what they are. Just to be clear though, there are registered yushoku working dogs as well, a couple pretty famous ones that I know of.
I been trying to find where I would be able to get a a Yushoku kishu from a working line. Are there any well known kennels? I have heard that the Gumma lines are pretty famous lines of Yushoku Kishu and also Kishus from the Miyama mura area of Wakayama is also well known for producing quality hunting Kishus.
@shishiinu - I think the standard allows white, red, brindle and sesame. I've never seen a brindle Kishu, but I remember reading it in some standard somewhere (maybe it was FCI though?). I'm having a bit of trouble navigating the sites, but I really like the dogs from the first breeder you posted but I'm really interested in the pinto from the second breeder! Very interesting! Thank you for sharing!
I thought the information seemed a little off when I considered the pictured I'd seen and the video that was posted but I didn't want to dispute the claims if I didn't know the facts.
@TheWalrus - Thank you for your insight and taking the time to reply so thoroughly! It's a shame about the Yushoku. I'd really like to import one some day or/and do my best/part to help preserve those lines, since it seems the white Kishu have a lot more in the way of blood and established breeders.
@jikjak - I really like the grey/white too, but I do agree that I'd like to see a richer color on her. Her sesame looks a little washed out on her back when compared to her face, IMO.
@TheWalrus - Do you think if the Shikoku ever gets too whittled down in both registrations and health that NIPPO will consider merging the Shikoku with the Kishu? Kinda like how the different Shibas were merged together? Or do a sanctioned outcross to each other?
I've been digging around for more Yushoku videos. I THINK the description implies/says this is a Kishu but does it look a bit odd?
Is "有色紀州犬" correct for Yushoku Kishu? I'm doing my best to force myself through this in Japanese. And, in closing, here's one ferocious little hunter doing his thing. This dog looks like he'll be a nice sable when he grows up. He's a pup from the first link Gen posted, I think.
@lindsayt - Yeah, it could be the color that's throwing me off but after seeing the second link @shishiinu posted, I'm not sure. Maybe it's just his legs look a bit wonky to me. He's got a super cute face though.
He looks like they shaved his coat to beat the summer heat (pinto video). His head, tail and chest are showing his guard hair color better than the rest of his body.
Woah, didn't know this thread existed. Really cool to see all these different looking Kishu. I really dig the first one with the white coat and ash colored detailing.
Haa, this super cute picture was on one of the breeder's websites in the news feed.
I really like some of their dogs' expressions and they seem to be a little lighter built than Miyako Takara's dogs (who appear more robust to me), but the coat quality on Miyako Takara dogs seems different than the first breeder. I can't tell if it's just the pictures, but it looks like the first breeder's dogs are a little coarser and less dense. Maybe it was just the season in which the pictures were taken. I like both "types". I can't choose one over the other on looks alone (I say, as though I'm going to absolutely buy a dog from either one TOMORROW). I'm really interested in any differences further than just the superficial ones, though--temperament and health or any little idiosyncrasies.
Comments
I found this guy on a site while dumpster diving through the internet - I really like him - his coloring and his body/head/stance are really cool. I wish the picture was a bit larger.
I was told recently that there's no one actively promoting any colored Kishu lines and the preferred show color in the Kishu is white (and that this is the only color seen in shows). I understand that the majority of them are white, but I wasn't aware that the colored Kishu just flat out weren't preferred. Is this true? It seems a shame to lose the colors altogether and I see that at least the first dog and the red dog are at a show (as well as maybe that last one I posted?).
Maybe @TheWalrus would know better than anyone... but how well do the Yushoku Kishu do in shows in Japan? Is it true that most of the colored dogs are unregistered hunting dogs?
I'd like to know a lot more about the Kishu than I do, and the Yushoku Kishu are still so mysterious to me!
http://www.kisyuudog.com/
http://www.geocities.jp/miyakotakara/index.html
Basically he agreed with what I've posted before, that Yushoku Kishu were probably in the majority, but the emergence of some very nice quality white Kishu led to the breed's swing toward white. There weren't very many quality Yushoku dogs he says, so breeders used the white lines more, plus there was the added preference of hunters toward white dogs. My opinion has been that hunters preferring white dogs could not have affected the breed too drastically, but I did realize after this conversation that even non working kennels on hearing things like this, would then lean even more toward the white dogs. Perception is a powerful thing.
Today there are still Yushoku Kishu shown, but I have yet to see a really outstanding specimen. Usually color is poor, or conformation is poor, or both. There have also been cases where kennels have been caught breeding Shikoku to white Kishu to create Yushoku Kishu. This gentleman told me of a dog who was doing very well in the ring that was found to be a mix. Again, perception plays a part, and Yushoku lines could be looked at with a bit of suspicion. You add the fact that there aren't really very many good show type Yushoku, and a bit of possible stigma attached to them, and you can understand why they don't show very well. Numbers are just extremely low as well.
Officially, there is no preference in NIPPO toward white or yushoku in the ring. There are kennels that focus on preserving them, and I'm sure there must be dogs who have placed well. Lastly, there are yushoku working lines, but unregistered lines usually means that there is a bit of other local dogs and breeds in there as well. There is obviously no registry, so no definite way of saying exactly what they are. Just to be clear though, there are registered yushoku working dogs as well, a couple pretty famous ones that I know of.
I thought the information seemed a little off when I considered the pictured I'd seen and the video that was posted but I didn't want to dispute the claims if I didn't know the facts.
@TheWalrus - Thank you for your insight and taking the time to reply so thoroughly! It's a shame about the Yushoku. I'd really like to import one some day or/and do my best/part to help preserve those lines, since it seems the white Kishu have a lot more in the way of blood and established breeders.
@jikjak - I really like the grey/white too, but I do agree that I'd like to see a richer color on her. Her sesame looks a little washed out on her back when compared to her face, IMO.
Is "有色紀州犬" correct for Yushoku Kishu? I'm doing my best to force myself through this in Japanese.
And, in closing, here's one ferocious little hunter doing his thing. This dog looks like he'll be a nice sable when he grows up. He's a pup from the first link Gen posted, I think.
Haa, this super cute picture was on one of the breeder's websites in the news feed.
I really like some of their dogs' expressions and they seem to be a little lighter built than Miyako Takara's dogs (who appear more robust to me), but the coat quality on Miyako Takara dogs seems different than the first breeder. I can't tell if it's just the pictures, but it looks like the first breeder's dogs are a little coarser and less dense. Maybe it was just the season in which the pictures were taken. I like both "types". I can't choose one over the other on looks alone (I say, as though I'm going to absolutely buy a dog from either one TOMORROW). I'm really interested in any differences further than just the superficial ones, though--temperament and health or any little idiosyncrasies.