wow that doesnt sound too appealing, i thought that the beef medallions kinda smelled good when i was preparing it the other day. maybe i shoulda tried some to see how it tasted. good to know tjbart17 and thanks for being the guinea pig!
ill see if theres primal or stella and chewys around here and maybe try those out as well, but there doesnt seem to be any dealers for them in canada.
if i double ghost's weight right now that would be over 64lbs and theres no way he would get that big right? 10% pup weight and 2.5% adult weight (estimated) gives such a big difference in quantity of food. maybe the 10% rule applies to really young pups? (4-8 weeks or so?)
losech, if u want to try some, i can try sending some over, im just not sure how to ship it. (maybe with dry ice?)
I'd love to try some, but not right now, maybe in January. I'm going to Arizona for the holidays XP How difficult is it to ship something like that from Canada to the US? I have no idea on the laws regarding raw food items. Plus since it's perishable, it probably requires a certain type of box and shipping is probably more expensive too. I'll look into it though.
Anyways, 64 pounds does seem a bit large. And yeah, they do give quite different estimates. I think the 10% rule is for young pups, now that I think about it. You can probably guess what Ghost's weight is going to be if you can create an average between his parents, if you know how much they weighed, or just go by what you think a typical adult Shikoku weighs and adjust as you go along.
i have no clue what his parents weigh but maybe i can find out! i figure he will be on the larger side of adult males and perhaps end up being in the 50-55lb range. i guess ill just have to keep an eye on how he looks and on his weight and make sure he doesnt get too fat or too thin. the store owner did mention that and she also said that he looks to be exactly where he should be for his size, (the vet also said that each time he went in for shots), so as long as he stays this way then im on the right track.
what id probably do is send it from the states as i go into washington state from time to time. im just not sure what would be the best way to keep it cold. it is winter so that probably helps and its frozen solid when you buy it. maybe some dry ice would do the trick.
I didn't know you go into Washington. That's neat, and I'm sure it would cut down on shipping by a lot. When I got a surprise shipment from Freshpet, the stuff was kept cold with regular disposable icepacks. Most of it was frozen, and that was when it was still quite hot outside.
ive been trying to do more research on some good raw food brands and they speak highly or primal, stella and chewys and also natures variety. unfortunately i cant find any info on natural instincts but that could be because they only seem to sell in british columbia and alberta (its mad in bc).
anyways ill be going to the seattle, wa area and im going to look for a pet food store that carries primal so that i can bring some home to try. if anyone that lives in washington state can recommend some good shops to me then please chime in. ill be going as far south as lacey because i want to hit up cabelas.
Natural instinct is local made and being not as big as company as nature's variety, bravo, primal, stella and chewys might be why it's not listed as review.
Looks good ingredient wise. The veggies probably cover the nutrient requirment for other secreting organ besides liver like kidney, spleen, etc.
Saya doesn't get veggies as part as her meal she usually gets it cooked and mashed up some times cooked whole or rarely raw. She only likes zucchini, broccoli, and brussel sprouts so far and even then if she had enough or don't want it she won't eat it.
Feeding amount for puppies is a bit higher then for an adult Saya was switched to full raw at 8months and she got two chicken drumstick or two chicken thigh a day, and after a bit I decreased it to one thigh or one drumstick with boneless added to the meal, or gizzards and then added tiny bit of pork with each meal.
Starting with premade is fine once you feel comfortable you can go full raw or maybe do half premade and half do it your self or once or twice a week as a meal.
Bella is 55lb and she handles chicken quarters fine, coarse always watch dogs when they eat..
Today Saya got beef liver for breakfast and for dinner she's getting whole saury.
It's very hard to research raw foods without getting a bunch of woo on the subject. Almost all of the sites out there read like they are written by crazies, which is probably one of the reasons why a lot of people think raw diets are strange, but you just have to sift through that and get down to the actual information they contain.
I lived in Seattle for a short while but that was before I got a dog, so I can't help there.
We use Detailed Answers (made in PA) in our house mainly and occasionally Primal and Vital Essentials. Kaiya doesn't seem to like the raw vital essentials but does like their freeze dried raw which we tend to use when we travel or if friends are watching her.
I've fed Primal and Nature's Variety over the years, but recently I have settled on Northwest Naturals. I'm told it is made by the same company as Primal. The only different I can tell is that it isn't organic ingredients. It's ~40%-60% of the cost of Primal, which is a win IMO. I also like that it comes in large bags of nuggets that defrost quickly if a certain someone forgets to put Joey's meals in the fridge 24 hours ahead of time. Not that that ever happens. Not ever. ;-)
I liked Primal. That's what we give them when they're younger. Never heard of Northwest Naturals...it's been so long since I've been to the local boutique that sells them. I'll have to check that out!
@dlroberts - The worst is forgetting to restock the chest freezer the previous day & making a trip to the grocery store at 8pm at night! [ sometimes later if we've had a long evening doing activities with the pups! :x ]
Fortunately, the one plus about living in such a heavy tourist area is some grocery store is always open somewhere ~
We feed Blue Wilderness (mostly because my wife gets a great deal on it and it's a pretty darn good food) and homemade raw. The last couple weeks, that homemade raw has consisted of a lot of venison; I've taken 3 deer so far this year and the dogs get the hearts, lungs, livers, fat, connective tissue and the ribs. They love the ribs--each of them grabs their piece and runs off with it like a thief.
Lucky dogs. Saya loves deer only has had roasts, loin, stew meat, ground, heart, and liver. She loves the stuff.
Blue wilderness is pretty good kibble from what I've read never fed it before might try with Bella and for treat for Saya.
Brittk Saya gets ground lamb, goat, beef, turkey frozen she likes it thawed or frozen either way I only feed ground meat and boneless frozen slows her down in eating it. I only feed bone in items, and big roasts and big items thawed.
Saya used to hate kidney, heart and tongue, but after offering them frozen in small pieces she loves those things now.
Only premade stuff Saya has gotten was from hare today grinds I gotten her mutton, duck and goat she loves all three equally.
I've just switched to Taste of the Wild puppy mix and he seems to like it...sometimes. He's 14 weeks old and he's SOOOO finicky!!! Can't tell if he's just not hungry sometimes (shoot he only eats twice a day) or if he's just picky and I should change flavors or brands.
I've gotten the Stella N' Chewy's premade raw that the dogs go ape for. Helps to feed it to them as a high value reward when I want to do something they absolutely hate (like me trimming their nails).
@tjbart17 - lol. The holistic shop I go to has a customer where he will eat everything before feeding it to his dog. He wants to make sure they are really of human grade ingredients. :]
i checked a few different stores in WA but i was unable to get the primal formulas. looks like i would have to look again another day or perhaps have some delivered. can anyone recommend a good site for mail ordering raw food?
@jikjak -did you check out the store locator on Primal Pet Foods website? They have about 40 stores listed in the Seattle, Redmond, Ellenburg, Bellvue area. I would call a store and ask what their selection is. The big 5lb chubs are the best deal. A big cooler for storage will do the trick for your trip. I think 7-9 5lb chubs would last a month. They have feeding calculator on their website too.
ya thats what i used and i went to about 4 or 5 different ones and they either didnt have any or only had the bones. i was looking for the primal formula meals. i even called some ahead of time and i was told that they had lots of primal but when i got there i only found a few bones.
aww, that is crap! A chub is a log of meat. (haha) They come in 2lb and 5lb. The bagged nugget are much more expensive because of the convenience of thawing out only a few nuggets at a time.
ahh i see, its like a bigger package (bullk version). ya it sucked, i wasted a lot of time looking for and driving to all these pet shops. ill have to look around again the next time i go to the states. for now ill just be using natural instincts and nature's variety since its readily available.
If you can afford to do it, go for it! I'm sure the variety will be great for them. Beef is so expensive, we try to give it once a week or so. But man, when you have a 70+lbs dog who eats 2lbs a day by himself, beef can get pricey! lol & That's without Fate's extra .7lbs he eats thrown in there. [ tho I will say, they do get a lot of beef "scraps" from our food when I'm prepping it ]
Tho, recently I've found these canned wellness "toppers" that are pretty much pure meat in a can. [ no bone tho, & cooked I'm sure ] But they've been a great way to give them some more variety without spending a small fortune.
I think you're going to love raw tho, pre-made or otherwise. I was skeptical before trying it, now I can't go back! ~
what ratio of reds to whites should i be using, or does it not really matter? im buying the premade formulas that have the required veggies and supplements so all i need to do is choose the different types of meat.
Ghost is about 5 months old now so he is definitely more than half grown right? (35lbs and over 18" at withers, girth is 22.5")
I'm not sure the ratio really matters, just that it's nice to give them some variety. Some dogs go their whole life eating nothing but chicken, or beef, or _____ whatever, the only time I think it would be crucial is if your pup has allergies to a certain type of meat. Look at it this way...I could technically live off chicken, but beef or turkey would be nice to have every once in a while!
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Yeah, he's probably done with MOST of his growing. [ like ~65% done, give or take ] I imagine the rest of his growth will be "filling out" & thickening up. But hey, you never know. He could decide to have a late growth spurt, or do the opposite & just grow veeeeeeeery slowly, or even stop growing at all. To give you an idea, around 5months old my shikoku boy weighed around 28lbs & was around 17.5" tall at the withers. At 7 months, he was 30lbs & 18." Now [ 1 year & 3 months ] he's around 20" tall & 32lbs. However, my boy's been fed raw most of his life...his growth has been VERY slow compared to the other shikoku pups his age. [ everyone else was always 10lbs ahead of him! ] but in the end, he evened out weight-wise & height-wise with the rest. However, he still has a VERY narrow chest, & is very "thin" [ like if you look down at him from the top ] I still think he has another 5lbs or so to gain, at least. He also is disproportionate in a lot of ways & still looks like a puppy lol [ but who knows? Maybe he just has bad "Type" haha ]
Anyway my point is, I've heard feeding raw tends to make the pups grow slower & go through less "dramatic growth spurts." I don't know how accurate this is, but it has been my experience. With my other boy, a dutch shepherd, I got to monitor his littermates growth. While Wraith was 5 months old & only 30 pounds, all the other pups were 50. When Wraith hit 10 months old, he was 50lbs, while all the other pups were 70. Wraith still looked like a gangly puppy while all the others were big & adult looking. [ Wraith was NOT the smallest in his litter either ] Now that Wraith is 1 1/2 years old, he's around 75lbs, & all his litter-mates are about the same. In the end, he ended up being the same size as the other pups, it just took him a lot longer to get there.
Of course, spaying / neutering seems to have an effect on growth too. Both my boys are still intact, so that might also explain the slow growth.
As always, your mileage may very. Who knows how these pups decide to grow! But they like to mess with us, I'll tell you that much ~
With pre made I dunno.. I think rotating between chicken, turkey and beef is good to do gives the dog variety..
I'm lucky to get good deals on things and usually I stock up when a good deal happens the freezer is so full from the whole turkeys, pork, tongues and hearts I just got..
Hare-today.com is good I've gotten their tripe, beef lung, beef gullet, whole quail and meat/bone/organ grinds and Saya loves it all.
They're shipping is bit high though I think it was $20 or so for me. They're based in Pennsylvania I believe.
mypetcarnivore.com is based in Indianapolis I haven't ordered from them yet freezer too full right now, but hope to soon since I'll be able to go to Indianapolis and just pick it up..
greentripe.com is in California area and there's co ops throughout the area not sure if it's worth joining one of those..
I'm lucky there's a lot of farmers and they sell the organs at decent price and it's grass fed organ meat.
The local butcher sells beef scraps, liver, heart, whatever they don't use not exactly sure what all in it. Someone in the area gets their beef for their dogs from them. I plan to get a couple lb once I have room in freezer. 1$lb not bad for it..
I give mainly pork for red meat and she also gets ground grass fed lamb, ground beef which was from grocery, grass fed beef stew meat, lamb ribs, lamb shanks, pork ribs, and so on.
I've gotten bison roast for her once was pricey, but she liked it. I cooked some for myself it was yummy too. She had deer one time when I got it free off of a hunter it was freezer burned, but still ok for dogs to eat.. It actually didn't look freezer burned once it was thawed out..
If it's premade, it's got everything in it so using only one forumla is fine. If it's home-made, it'd be best to have some variety since chicken is low in some nutrients and you'll get deficiencies overtime (like zinc, for one). I use a lot of chicken but I give extras to make up for the nutrients it doesn't have many of. But since you're going to do the formulas, don't worry about it.
Comments
ill see if theres primal or stella and chewys around here and maybe try those out as well, but there doesnt seem to be any dealers for them in canada.
if i double ghost's weight right now that would be over 64lbs and theres no way he would get that big right?
10% pup weight and 2.5% adult weight (estimated) gives such a big difference in quantity of food. maybe the 10% rule applies to really young pups? (4-8 weeks or so?)
losech, if u want to try some, i can try sending some over, im just not sure how to ship it. (maybe with dry ice?)
How difficult is it to ship something like that from Canada to the US? I have no idea on the laws regarding raw food items. Plus since it's perishable, it probably requires a certain type of box and shipping is probably more expensive too. I'll look into it though.
Anyways, 64 pounds does seem a bit large. And yeah, they do give quite different estimates. I think the 10% rule is for young pups, now that I think about it.
You can probably guess what Ghost's weight is going to be if you can create an average between his parents, if you know how much they weighed, or just go by what you think a typical adult Shikoku weighs and adjust as you go along.
i guess ill just have to keep an eye on how he looks and on his weight and make sure he doesnt get too fat or too thin. the store owner did mention that and she also said that he looks to be exactly where he should be for his size, (the vet also said that each time he went in for shots), so as long as he stays this way then im on the right track.
what id probably do is send it from the states as i go into washington state from time to time. im just not sure what would be the best way to keep it cold. it is winter so that probably helps and its frozen solid when you buy it. maybe some dry ice would do the trick.
When I got a surprise shipment from Freshpet, the stuff was kept cold with regular disposable icepacks. Most of it was frozen, and that was when it was still quite hot outside.
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/
ive been trying to do more research on some good raw food brands and they speak highly or primal, stella and chewys and also natures variety. unfortunately i cant find any info on natural instincts but that could be because they only seem to sell in british columbia and alberta (its mad in bc).
anyways ill be going to the seattle, wa area and im going to look for a pet food store that carries primal so that i can bring some home to try. if anyone that lives in washington state can recommend some good shops to me then please chime in. ill be going as far south as lacey because i want to hit up cabelas.
Looks good ingredient wise. The veggies probably cover the nutrient requirment for other secreting organ besides liver like kidney, spleen, etc.
Saya doesn't get veggies as part as her meal she usually gets it cooked and mashed up some times cooked whole or rarely raw. She only likes zucchini, broccoli, and brussel sprouts so far and even then if she had enough or don't want it she won't eat it.
Feeding amount for puppies is a bit higher then for an adult Saya was switched to full raw at 8months and she got two chicken drumstick or two chicken thigh a day, and after a bit I decreased it to one thigh or one drumstick with boneless added to the meal, or gizzards and then added tiny bit of pork with each meal.
Starting with premade is fine once you feel comfortable you can go full raw or maybe do half premade and half do it your self or once or twice a week as a meal.
Bella is 55lb and she handles chicken quarters fine, coarse always watch dogs when they eat..
Today Saya got beef liver for breakfast and for dinner she's getting whole saury.
It's very hard to research raw foods without getting a bunch of woo on the subject. Almost all of the sites out there read like they are written by crazies, which is probably one of the reasons why a lot of people think raw diets are strange, but you just have to sift through that and get down to the actual information they contain.
I lived in Seattle for a short while but that was before I got a dog, so I can't help there.
@dlroberts - The worst is forgetting to restock the chest freezer the previous day & making a trip to the grocery store at 8pm at night! [ sometimes later if we've had a long evening doing activities with the pups! :x ]
Fortunately, the one plus about living in such a heavy tourist area is some grocery store is always open somewhere
Blue wilderness is pretty good kibble from what I've read never fed it before might try with Bella and for treat for Saya.
Brittk Saya gets ground lamb, goat, beef, turkey frozen she likes it thawed or frozen either way I only feed ground meat and boneless frozen slows her down in eating it. I only feed bone in items, and big roasts and big items thawed.
Saya used to hate kidney, heart and tongue, but after offering them frozen in small pieces she loves those things now.
Only premade stuff Saya has gotten was from hare today grinds I gotten her mutton, duck and goat she loves all three equally.
Kuki doesn't seem to have a preference on the flavor.
looks like i would have to look again another day or perhaps have some delivered.
can anyone recommend a good site for mail ordering raw food?
http://www.mypetcarnivore.com
I'm not sure where all they ship to though. I'm lucky to live in CA and have a butcher drive up and down the state to pick up raw foods.
what is a chub?
ill have to look around again the next time i go to the states. for now ill just be using natural instincts and nature's variety since its readily available.
i was told to do 2 days white and 1 day red.
Tho, recently I've found these canned wellness "toppers" that are pretty much pure meat in a can. [ no bone tho, & cooked I'm sure ] But they've been a great way to give them some more variety without spending a small fortune.
I think you're going to love raw tho, pre-made or otherwise. I was skeptical before trying it, now I can't go back! ~
im buying the premade formulas that have the required veggies and supplements so all i need to do is choose the different types of meat.
Ghost is about 5 months old now so he is definitely more than half grown right? (35lbs and over 18" at withers, girth is 22.5")
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Yeah, he's probably done with MOST of his growing. [ like ~65% done, give or take ] I imagine the rest of his growth will be "filling out" & thickening up. But hey, you never know. He could decide to have a late growth spurt, or do the opposite & just grow veeeeeeeery slowly, or even stop growing at all. To give you an idea, around 5months old my shikoku boy weighed around 28lbs & was around 17.5" tall at the withers. At 7 months, he was 30lbs & 18." Now [ 1 year & 3 months ] he's around 20" tall & 32lbs. However, my boy's been fed raw most of his life...his growth has been VERY slow compared to the other shikoku pups his age. [ everyone else was always 10lbs ahead of him! ] but in the end, he evened out weight-wise & height-wise with the rest. However, he still has a VERY narrow chest, & is very "thin" [ like if you look down at him from the top ] I still think he has another 5lbs or so to gain, at least. He also is disproportionate in a lot of ways & still looks like a puppy lol [ but who knows? Maybe he just has bad "Type" haha ]
Anyway my point is, I've heard feeding raw tends to make the pups grow slower & go through less "dramatic growth spurts." I don't know how accurate this is, but it has been my experience. With my other boy, a dutch shepherd, I got to monitor his littermates growth. While Wraith was 5 months old & only 30 pounds, all the other pups were 50. When Wraith hit 10 months old, he was 50lbs, while all the other pups were 70. Wraith still looked like a gangly puppy while all the others were big & adult looking. [ Wraith was NOT the smallest in his litter either ] Now that Wraith is 1 1/2 years old, he's around 75lbs, & all his litter-mates are about the same. In the end, he ended up being the same size as the other pups, it just took him a lot longer to get there.
Of course, spaying / neutering seems to have an effect on growth too. Both my boys are still intact, so that might also explain the slow growth.
As always, your mileage may very. Who knows how these pups decide to grow! But they like to mess with us, I'll tell you that much
I'm lucky to get good deals on things and usually I stock up when a good deal happens the freezer is so full from the whole turkeys, pork, tongues and hearts I just got..
Hare-today.com is good I've gotten their tripe, beef lung, beef gullet, whole quail and meat/bone/organ grinds and Saya loves it all.
They're shipping is bit high though I think it was $20 or so for me. They're based in Pennsylvania I believe.
mypetcarnivore.com is based in Indianapolis I haven't ordered from them yet freezer too full right now, but hope to soon since I'll be able to go to Indianapolis and just pick it up..
greentripe.com is in California area and there's co ops throughout the area not sure if it's worth joining one of those..
I'm lucky there's a lot of farmers and they sell the organs at decent price and it's grass fed organ meat.
The local butcher sells beef scraps, liver, heart, whatever they don't use not exactly sure what all in it. Someone in the area gets their beef for their dogs from them. I plan to get a couple lb once I have room in freezer. 1$lb not bad for it..
I give mainly pork for red meat and she also gets ground grass fed lamb, ground beef which was from grocery, grass fed beef stew meat, lamb ribs, lamb shanks, pork ribs, and so on.
I've gotten bison roast for her once was pricey, but she liked it. I cooked some for myself it was yummy too. She had deer one time when I got it free off of a hunter it was freezer burned, but still ok for dogs to eat.. It actually didn't look freezer burned once it was thawed out..
If it's home-made, it'd be best to have some variety since chicken is low in some nutrients and you'll get deficiencies overtime (like zinc, for one). I use a lot of chicken but I give extras to make up for the nutrients it doesn't have many of.
But since you're going to do the formulas, don't worry about it.