Kai with long coats

edited July 2012 in Kai Ken (甲斐犬)
Curious: I've seen a couple of Kai with long coats (Border Collie length)... Is this just a Europe thing or are they also in Japan? I've never seen them in NIPPO show pictures. Just wondering...
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Comments

  • Well, you wouldn't see them in show pictures if they do exist...
  • That's what I'm trying to figure out... Is the long coat seen as a "flaw" in the breed? If so, why are there so many in Europe?
  • Yes, it's a flaw. I've wondered the same thing about Europe, but I sort of chalked it up to the fact that the pics I see from Japan are mostly at shows or breeders showing off their dogs.

    Then again, I don't know of any in NA. Maybe they just happened to get that gene in Europe and it's common because the gene pool isn't that big.
  • Its a flaw in all Nihon Ken. I don't know about its prevalence in the Kai or any breed other than the Japanese Akita. I do know that with Akitas, Japanese do *not* like to admit that they had a long coat born in their kennel and some used to (or still do) kill the coated puppies.
  • That's sad... They should just neuter the pup.
  • There are long coat Kai born in Japan too, they are usually culled or placed out as pets - and not talked about much. ;o)
  • well, if anyone needs to hush up a long coat kai puppy, send him to me. It's cold here. I am an incessant braggart about my dogs though, I probably couldnt keep my mouth shut. :)
  • It might depend on the texture of the coat, but the long-hair on my dog is actually more trouble. The longer/softer fringe picks up burrs and dirt more than the harsh normal hairs. The coat also parts down the center when wet instead of shedding water. She hasn't encountered snow yet, but I assume the soft fringe would be snow magnets as well.

    It's a daily chore to go through her ears, her neck, her toes, her britches, her tail, and the area where her tail touches the back.

  • edited July 2012
    Long hair Akita:
    image

    Long hair Shiba:
    image

    I've never seen a long hair Kai Ken though. If you find one, please post a photo! @ayk, your poongsan is what I would imagine a long haired Kishu would look like.


  • Not sure, but the Long hair Akita reminds me of a long haired shiba? Maya maybe? shiba on the left I think is bowdu? I'm not sure I thought I saw this picture somewhere, but could be wrong..

    I seen long haired kai ken pictures posted before on kai group or from friend on FB been while so I forgot who owned the kai ken..

    Found it I was right it is Bowdu and Maya. :)
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/menghsindy/7147307817/
  • yeah, Ann, youre right...not actually practical for the snowy woodland life. :)
  • Here's an example of what a simple roll on the ground will do. :-p

    image
  • This was the case with our CO too, Ann ( @ayk )...

    Luytiy's hair is always clean as his is shorter, but Masha's (and Naum's) was always full of sticks and such. The medium and short coated COs are preferred for working homes.

    Lindsay can tell you all about what gets caught in a really long coat CO (lol) @lindsayt

    ----
  • IMO long coated Kais are a problem in Europe... And it's caused by using the same (dogs might seem to be from different lines but really they aren't when looking more back than three generations) US imports who have same genes.
  • edited July 2012
    Here is an akita to redeem my previous photo.

    image

    and puppies awwww
    image
  • I wonder if anybody has tried doing genetic tests for long-hair in the Kai? There are several for other breeds.

    If it works in the Kai, a European breeder can avoid producing it by not breeding carrier to carrier.
  • those puppies are too cute. i can't handle it!! :D
  • @saya, good memory. =)

    @Zinja, Yeah, that's Maya (mayama on the Shiba side, not sure if she's on this side?), a long-haired Shiba. Not Akita. If you found that picture without a caption/link somewhere, please let me know.
  • I did a google image search for "long haired" "akita" "shiba" and Maya showed up. There was a caption underneath the flikr image that says Maya was a Shiba.. I just didn't read it.
  • Grym just got his pre blood donation groom. It took a week to pull all the undercoat. The stuff on the body is fine, but the fluff on his legs gets filthy and matted up really badly. Talc powder is the best for helping his coat shed the forest particles.

    Long coat is a flaw, and there is one breeder here who is spreading it around with her dogs. There is a genetic test for it that more breeders are using.

    The long coat Kai pictures I saw gave these Kai the appearance of hyenas and werewolves!
  • Were-hyenas! *lol* Got to admit I'm curious to see a picture!
  • Those long haired akita are cute! I do agree the long hair would be issue with burs and stuff..

    I seen some very long coated dogs at the dog park their fur is full of leaves from playing..

    I saw post on dogster shiba forum how breeder where the dogster got their shiba from is purposely breeding for long haired shiba inu.. I was surprised on this..

    I mean long haired shiba are cute and all, but I don't think people need to be breeding for them on purpose. :\

    Found the thread to this..
    http://www.dogster.com/forums/Shiba_inu/thread/712997/3
  • All right, I searched a bit, and this is what I came up with:

    image

    Labeled as a mix. From here (a couple more pictures at the link):
    http://asitaka-yamabudou.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2010/03/post-3ab6.html

    image

    Also labeled as a mix. From here:
    http://kamezo.cc/blog/entry/107592

    image
    This guy was the only long-haired at the Kai Ken Appreciation Society meeting, or something like that. I think they think he's pure?:
    http://ameblo.jp/kai-sizuku/entry-10512553015.html

    Most of what I found were labeled as mixes. I am curious if some of those are actually purebred, since long-haired Shibas are also frequently identified as "mixes" when they're not...?
  • Huh. Kind of odd looking. But that's probably just because I'm used to the standard Kai coat. I'm not crazy about long haired dogs, though I have to admit the LC Shibas are cute, and the Akita pups up above are adorable!

    But that's pretty annoying that someone is breeding the LC Shibas on purpose. Of course I shouldn't be surprised--there are people who breed creams on purpose too. There's always someone who will go out of their way to breed against standard it seems. *sigh*
  • edited June 2013
    The dog in the 2nd to last photo embedded (at the kamezo.cc link) (red collar) has Juno's tail and general coat length- I dont think I'd call him/her and Juno longcoats. The other dogs pictured are def long coats and much fluffier. But still, I havent seen any other kai with that tail except Juno and that dog there.

    I have had the pleasure of meeting (and patting!) Ayu and Kori recently- and Ayu, Kori and Juno all have different coats, despite all being red girls and all being related through Mako (Ayu's mom, and Juno and Kori's grandmother). I like the diversity of the working-line kai. :)
  • edited June 2013
    @WrylyBrindle The short coat gene seems to have incomplete dominance. That is to say, if you have a dog that has one short coat gene (dominant) and one long coat gene (recessive), his coat will be longer and softer than if he had two short coat genes. This is why it remains prevalent in Japanese Akitas; the heterozygous dogs have nice plush coats that do well in shows, vs dogs like King Ghidora who has a shorter, rougher coat. So the carriers win more and are bred more, and when you breed two carriers together, you get coats and more carriers.

    Anyway, its possible that Juno or the dog in the above photo is a carrier and has a slightly plusher coat than non-carriers in the breed. Or maybe its caused by something else entirely. Only way to know would be to DNA test. :)
  • i like the long coated kai :)
  • Good grief! I bathed and blow dried Shelby today at work and it took me half an hour to get her dry. That long coat mess is for the birds!
  • I didn't know that long coat was an issue in Europe? Is there so much?

    I already seen two but I think it's the only two in France (brother and sister). They are beautiful and very dark in color but their coat is so hard to take care of it seems ! ^^
  • My neighbour has a long-coat Kai. As some people have pointed out above, long-coat Kais do not appear in the dog show and, indeed, this neighbour's Kai comes from a family of working dogs to hunt wild boars, and their looks do not matter.

    He is more than 10 years old but remains just as affectionate as he was at 6 months old. Currnetly, he has a "summer cut" but when his coat grows back again in winter, I will take a photo and show you.
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