New puppy and Raw Feeding questions
Hi All,
We've been following this site for a year now, educating ourselves and waiting for our pup to arrive. We picked him up from our breeder in Quebec, Canada on February 1st at 10 weeks of age. He is a Japanese Akita Inu his name is Raiden Go Sumiyoken and is just lovely...don't let my husband know I used such a girly word for our boy....but he is.
I was hoping to post some pictures but can't seem to figure it out??? Directions appreciated
I also have a question regarding feeding. We started feeding Raiden raw the day after we picked him up. He took to it like a duck to water and has been doing very well. We started with ground bones and chickens, then added in daily a chicken back, which he loved and did very well with and now have introduced lamb ( another favourite) and a ground chicken blend of bones, chicken and offal in correct proportions. He gained 1.5 pound the first week and we are feeding him about 680-700 grams now daily based on his weight. We divide it up into 4 feeds. All was well until yesterday he didn't finish any of meals and had only a total intake of 430 grams. Today the same. He is only taking about a third of the portion at each meal. In every other respect he seems fine. Drinking well, playing, running and being puppy like troublesome. Poops are good too.
Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.......if this were one of my children I'd know that their appetites do fluctuate and it's what they eat over the course of week that matters not the daily intake. But with a puppy I'm lost! It's just that he is only 12 weeks old and growing so quickly.....we want to make sure we aren't doing something "wrong". Typical new over-concerned new parents, I know:)
Thanks so much for your feedback and as soon as I figure you how to post pics I will be able to share our little boy with you all!
We've been following this site for a year now, educating ourselves and waiting for our pup to arrive. We picked him up from our breeder in Quebec, Canada on February 1st at 10 weeks of age. He is a Japanese Akita Inu his name is Raiden Go Sumiyoken and is just lovely...don't let my husband know I used such a girly word for our boy....but he is.
I was hoping to post some pictures but can't seem to figure it out??? Directions appreciated
I also have a question regarding feeding. We started feeding Raiden raw the day after we picked him up. He took to it like a duck to water and has been doing very well. We started with ground bones and chickens, then added in daily a chicken back, which he loved and did very well with and now have introduced lamb ( another favourite) and a ground chicken blend of bones, chicken and offal in correct proportions. He gained 1.5 pound the first week and we are feeding him about 680-700 grams now daily based on his weight. We divide it up into 4 feeds. All was well until yesterday he didn't finish any of meals and had only a total intake of 430 grams. Today the same. He is only taking about a third of the portion at each meal. In every other respect he seems fine. Drinking well, playing, running and being puppy like troublesome. Poops are good too.
Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.......if this were one of my children I'd know that their appetites do fluctuate and it's what they eat over the course of week that matters not the daily intake. But with a puppy I'm lost! It's just that he is only 12 weeks old and growing so quickly.....we want to make sure we aren't doing something "wrong". Typical new over-concerned new parents, I know:)
Thanks so much for your feedback and as soon as I figure you how to post pics I will be able to share our little boy with you all!
Comments
Then last year at the store where I buy my raw green beef tripe blends, I found out one of the employees breed Great Danes and she weans puppies off using green beef tripe. So go figure.
Generally, when first switching to raw, the dog will consider it a special treat. But after they've had some time to acclimate to the diet, most dogs will start to regulate and think of it as something normal and not something special. As an example, for someone who orders fast food a lot having a home cooked meal becomes a nice treat, while for someone who often cooks their own meals having fast food becomes their treat.
Also, protein isn't the big problem, minerals are. Excess calcium or a wacky calcium/phosphorus ratio can cause more problems than a lot of protein. I wouldn't feed chicken backs (very boney) to a growing dog getting a commercial product more than once a week, since commercial foods have more than adequate amounts of calcium in them already. I'd go for something like leg quarters or bone-in breasts instead.
@Muskokamoon, I think people wait until after their adult teeth come in for chewing bones, but other than that I think it should be fine.
With adult dogs, I feed raw once a day, though they get treats throughout the day. But with puppies that have to have 2 or even 3 meals a day, it's easier for me to do some kibble meals and one raw meal.
I do think that the protein levels in a pure raw diet can be high for young pups, so I decided with the bigger breeds (Akitas) to do some raw meals and some kibble until they are older. As I said, it's also simply easier for me.
Should be noted that I feed BARF style, so it is pretty much meat and bone, with organ meat, though all dogs do get table scraps, and some occasional vegies.
she did have a bit of a protest about offal around 20 weeks but she is happy to eat just about anything. she had chicken wings and necks from 5 weeks at her breeders and was eating lamb ribs here at 8 weeks and tucking into whole rabbits by 12 weeks.
the one thing I will say that I noticed more than anything compared to my kibble fed pups is we have had no massive growth spurt at all. Her growth as been very steady.
one thing i will say is all my akitas seem to prefer whole chunks to minced meats, maybe something to do with the texture rather than taste because the meat is all from the same source.
@mapletwinkie: my dogs think kibble is a great treat since they they eat raw all the time. I think it's just novelty: oooh, something new! I always call it there "McDonalds" meal when we have to feed kibble (though really, it's good quality kibble so no comparison, but they act like a kid who got to have fast food). And I just bought some of the stinky green tripe for mine too! Haven't fed it yet, though! I might want to feed them outside on that day!
Re: bacteria, etc: I've fed this way for 15 years and at first was hypervigilant about clean up,etc, but, well, am not so much anymore. No one, human or dog, has ever had illnesses from the meat, so I suspect it is doesn't actually happen that often in those with strong immune systems. sometimes vets will use the salmonella scare thing to tell people not to go raw, but you know, even kibble has had it, and for healthy dogs (and probably people) it's not an issue. I buy all my chicken at the grocery store! The big thing for me is that I can't afford to feed 4 dogs (two Akitas) a commercially prepared raw diet, which, while great, are super expensive. But I can feed them a home prepared raw diet, which I do! So that's why we went that route. For those that want to try it, it's way easier than you think. I do remember being nervous at first, but once you get used to it, and your dogs adjust, it's super easy.
How old is Eris now? I also noticed there was no growth spurt in Mei, but I figured it was b/c she's a girl.
she is a big bitch for a JA but here in the uk we really lack good sized bitches and its certainly not affecting her in the show ring with judges placing her well all but twice. including best puppy in breed wins and a reserve best bitch at a recent show were she was placed over our breeds top winning bitch for 2013.
Meichan was the runt of her litter, and still midget sized compared to the JAs at the show last weekend. She's double DQ from the shows :-)
Appreciate all the comments and discussion!
luckily my breeder raw feeds also. Although I am hoping to mate Eris subject to health tests next year and will be raw weaning the litter.
I don't think protein is issue I think it is more Calcium and phosphorus is one issue gotta balance right amounts of calcium and phosphorus.
These links might be helpful for info.
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Food_and_Nutrition/thread/663911
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=652
like @Losech said.
I feed chicken backs before fine, but they can be boney only time I give them is when I get a whole chicken and portion it out into meal size portions..
I balance the back meal with boneless meals or liver. same with necks I only fed those when farmer gave me a free bag of them.
I'd try parts like quarter or bone in breast too. quarters can sometimes have chicken kidneys on it which is a plus.
I find this picture helpful.
Here's pic of one of saya's meal few weeks ago chicken wing and boneless pork. she got an egg for am meal and the bone in item and boneless was pm meal.
Like shibamistress I do the do it yourself type raw even though Saya is 20lbs and I could feed it to her fine, but still I find do it yourself raw much easier plus I have good sources from local farmers so meat is pretty good I still buy from grocery too. I have fed grinds from hare today it has meat, bone and organ grinded up.. I tried their goat, duck and the mutton ones she liked them and enjoyed them. I fed them as part of her meals I portioned them into 3oz portions and she got it as a morning meal or pm meal throughout the week along with her normal meals.
I've also tried pre made diets for boarding Saya did well digestive wise with it.
I've fed honest kitchen it's nice stuff I serve it as a snack or small meal. usually mix a raw or cooked egg, ground ewe, beef or canned fish to make it small meal also use as kibble topper for Bella.
She likes the zeal one.
http://www.truecarnivores.com/nutrition/green-tripe/
@mapletwinkie, Mei has been enjoying Pet Kind brand tripe canned food w/ her Fromm kibble. This morning I gave her some Green Beef Tripe Xcaliber grind. She looked at it apprehensively but ate it all :-)
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kxdy0xcm5w1qazfbo.jpg
Or do you mainly give green tripe, but give other items along with the tripe?
@MuskokaMoon haha before too long you'll have a dog freezer.. :P
Saya here inspecting her's.. Full of yummy deer organs, pork, ewe, liver, kidneys, heart, tongue, lamb ribs. etc. I plan to order bunch of quail soon to fill the freezer up..
Bella gets good bit of raw now that I have my own freezer too she loves pork ribs, boneless pork, chicken quarters, chicken feet, chicken and beef liver, lamb kidney, chicken gizzards, beef heart and tongue. She also loves smelt both her and Saya loves smelt yummy fish.
I enjoy raw diet find it much more enjoyable and it works for me. saya is five and still doing well. Kibble she had smelly breath and on raw she seems be more healthy all around.
I'm Glad Raiden is doing better he's probably just adjusting to things.
Saya used to want me hold her drumsticks and thighs, but over time she got better and worked on how to eat the food without me needing to hold it.
When I feed raw green beef tripe, it's from this company that is local to us:
http://m.yelp.com/biz/greentripe-com-hollister?nb=1
I haven't actively looked for butcher shops that sell fresh unprocessed GBT nor will I, we have limited fridge storage.
I feed either the GBT ground, GBT with trachea & gullet ground or the Xcaliber blend. The organ meat blend is too rich for my dogs. @saya, you can read up on what are the ingredients in the grind on their website http://greentripe.com/
There are also other frozen raw I used, but this brand along with Tuckers are the most economical. Somehow Princess Meichan got picky last September and refuse to eat. If I defrost a 2# chub and she refuse to eat it, the older shiba can't finish all of it before it goes bad. So we also offer kibble or freeze dry raw, which is handy for boarding or travel. I guess being picky about food runs in her family. She will sometimes fast for a day. So I started to keep canned food around to entice her to eat.
By the way, re: breath, I have my dogs on Proden PlaqueOff Dental Care for Dogs and Cats, 60gm by Proden http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047VWPNI/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_ofAatb04B6D0G
It seems to help regardless if they're eating kibble or raw.
This thread
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/155430/
from Dec 2012 covered similar info on what I feed
It actually made me sad re-reading the old posts. Our older shiba was offered some of the Xcaliber grind this morning and he couldn't finish it. The old boy has several chipped incisors and some cracks in his molars. He mostly swallows his kibble without chewing these days
@MuskokaMoon, sorry for distracting, this thread was supposed to be about feeding your Akita puppy!
Pretty much half her meat, bone in meal and organs is grass fed/free ranged from local Indiana farmers. other half is from grocery and local butcher and small portion from other sources like hare today and other places. I plan to make a big order at hare today soon getting whole herring, sardines, and quail might get rabbit as Saya loves whole rabbit.
@MuskokaMoon you might find this link interesting well anyone interested in learning about canine nutrition really. has info on various nutrients etc. gives the effects, deficiency, toxicity and some sources.
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=dminerals
I use this also coarse doesn't give nutrient info on bone, but still nice for nutrient info on things like chicken liver, beef liver, roasts, ground meat, egg, etc.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/