who should get a dog?
I mean what do breeders look for when placing puppies?
I'm curious about dog owners who are able to keep dogs in near ideal conditions.
I don't mean to pry but I'd like to know what characteristics good owners have that enables them to keep their dogs in optimal condition.
eg work from home, years of experience, financially stable, rent vs owning home...
I kinda want to see how I'd be rated, if I should wait, and what should I wait for before considering sharing my life with a dog.
I'm curious about dog owners who are able to keep dogs in near ideal conditions.
I don't mean to pry but I'd like to know what characteristics good owners have that enables them to keep their dogs in optimal condition.
eg work from home, years of experience, financially stable, rent vs owning home...
I kinda want to see how I'd be rated, if I should wait, and what should I wait for before considering sharing my life with a dog.
Comments
-cough-
I think it honestly depends on the person.
My dogs come first no matter what. They're going to eat the best food and get the best care possible. They're going to go on adventures and live life to their fullest. I will make damn sure of it.
Personally, for me to sell a dog/puppy to you, then you better like dogs and learning about them. I work on the prevention side of things. Never put my dogs into a situation I think they will fail. I would expect the person to read a lot into BAT, Positive Reinforcement, counter conditioning, and creating amazing puppy foundation. If you can do all of that and genuinely care about the pup, then I don't care if you live in an apartment, rent or own, have money spilling out of your pockets or experience. Just gotta be willing and have fun doing it.
@WrylyBrindle thanks for that advice, I'd have to choose a breed first though, definitely harder than I thought. And from taking with you guys I think I've learned quite a bit and the changed perspective changed what I'm looking for, which is excellent, I at last have a better sense of what I need.
http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/3621/potential-puppy-owners-why-buy-from-a-reputable-breeder/p1
http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/7602/so-you-want-to-find-a-shiba-inu-breeder/p1
But the worst thing someone can do is ask the price and say no more--many breeders don't even reply to those emails. They like to know that you've educated yourself about the breed, and why you want that particular breed. They like to know that you will give the dog a good home for life. They usually ask about a fenced yard too (every breeder I've dealt with--except for Yamabushi, but they already knew me!--wanted a description of the yard and pictures of the fence). They want to know what you will with the dog when you are away from home. I'm on an Akita breeder site and I see a lot of discussion of what they ask in early contact with possible homes, and one question is where will the dog be if you are not at home, and they want to know that you have a secure kennel or are leaving the dogs indoors. (An outside all the time dog is not going to impress a breeder of these dogs).
Regarding the 12 hours a way from home: that won't work for a puppy, because puppies often need to go out every hour early on (or at least every few hours). So you'll have to have something set up for the puppy (someone who can come in an take the pup out at least a couple of times in the day). Or you could get an adult dog.
It helps to tell people that you've joined a forum, are doing your research, etc. And also, be persistent. A lot of breeders, I noticed, don't reply to email much, so you may have to call some people (once you get to that stage). Esp. with the more popular breeds, have a long list and keep trying. But being here, doing research is really an excellent first step!
I know in my breed (West Siberian Laika) in Norway, it's not uncommon to refuse anyone who don't live within commuting distance of a hunting ground. Their criteria is to be able to visit the hunting ground once per day before they sell a dog.
On the other hand, here in North America, they will sell to hunters and guides first and sell the surplus to hikers, wildlife officers and so on.
Since (I think) you mentioned somewhere bond was important to you, Be warned that with your long 12 hour work days, it'll take longer for you puppy and you to get bonded. Add in the fact that your family might spend more time with your puppy then you, they might bond stronger with them over you.
I'm speaking from personal experience and those of my colleagues that did get a puppy when they have a steady job from 7 am - 6 pm.
I'm not saying it's not possible, but it will be more difficult and take more time.
If you have a job where your boss doesn't mind a puppy, and all the potty breaks and activity that they bring, it could work. Otherwise, older dogs are amazing! You bypass the chewing and house training, and they're just as cuddly! It's all about finding the right dog for you and your environment.
That would be awesome, but dogs and construction definitely don't mix. Even though pretty much everyone I work with has dogs, I asked them how they did it, usually during vacation. When I was going through my AA crush my boss told me how he found an akita puppy abandoned in the woods, didn't even know what she was, and took her home. Some people get all the luck.
I have another year and a half of grad school. At which point, I know what I want to do--but it may require me to move to another state. It also may not, because job openings in my field can be hard to predict. Whatever I get at first may not be the thing I end up doing forever, but I chose a more stable field than the one in which I did my undergrad in part because it's important to me to eventually have a lifestyle that supports a dog.
The thing that kills me is that my current job would actually allow me to bring a puppy to the office occasionally, and I live with my parents--who are both retired and are home most of the day. I have stretches of time off, and know a network of "dog people" in the area that I trust to recommend training facilities, etc. even though I haven't attended classes at any of them for years.
I still haven't decided when in all of that I will take serious steps to get a dog. I need to meet some Kai first, to confirm my interest in them more seriously--hopefully, I'll have occasion to drive down to Ohio and meet @sjp051993's dogs before too long. Based on what I know, I think I will like them--but although I have seen some 'in the flesh,' it was years ago and I was a kid at the time and did not directly interact with them. So my knowledge of the breed at this point in time comes mainly from this forum and the other research I've been able to do.
After that, well, I'm not sure. So far, my plan is to wait until I'm done with school and know where I'll be for a while, with decent assurance that I will not become unemployed or terribly underemployed in the near future. It has as much to do with living situation as with anything else, as there are lots of apartments with fairly strict pet restrictions that place a 25lb limit on dogs. I need to be able to afford not only housing that permits a medium-sized dog, but also to care for the dog and provide appropriate veterinary care even if an emergency occurs, etc. I also, especially with a Kai, strongly prefer to be in a stable enough situation to know that I am unlikely to move during the adjustment period.
This also will be best for the pet I currently have, an almost-16-year-old cat who really doesn't want to live with dogs again. She tolerates dogs, but they clearly cause her stress--and I feel it's unfair to her, especially at her age, to plan to subject her to a puppy. So it's important for me to keep that in mind, too, but that's because I already have a pet.
So this probably doesn't help you, but it at least outlines some of how I'm in the process of making this decision? It's a work in progress, and probably will be until the day I bring a puppy home.
I definitely hope for my lifestyle to allow me to own dogs. Luckily my time is more open since college coursework is completed, and my home was owned by a rottweiler byb, so the fence and space is there, and the huge park across the street, family interested. I just need to put it altogether, get my time in order and pick one or two dogs (my brother wants one too now).
For instance, when Hanzo had a bad reaction to Frontline and had a painful sore that needed to be cut and cleaned, I had them put him under because I knew subjecting him to that would forever make not like the vet. Would he recover eventually? Maybe, but it would take a lot longer for him than the derpy lab I grew up with who would love you no matter what.
As far as situation, with the right availability and activity level outside the home, any home can work with a Kai. They tend to enjoy both the horizontal floor space and vertical furniture space. We take our Kai with us in the RV and he has no problem hanging in that small space for days as long as he has a chance to run and explore outside of it.
Also, if you are working twelve hour days, I'd be a bit worried about socialization. For example, when we got our pup, we started at about 40-50 hours of socialization a week and we both were working full time but I had to cut my work hours down to about 45 hours a week so that we could both be part of the process.
I can definitely say that my job occasionally requires me to work 12-hour days (during the Christmas season) and while Kira CAN hold it for that long, it's not preferred that she is put into that situation on a regular basis. Additionally, she is a year and a half old and has come to trust that I will come home and relieve her so she holds it until then. I do live with my S.O. so she doesn't have to deal with that too often. I'll admit, I feel guilty when we have a day that she has to tolerate a 12-hour day but she is confident in the fact that I will come home for her.
Your situation is MUCH different, as the dog will be a puppy. I would recommend trying to obtain your pup during a time or season when your job will not require you to work such long shifts (if that's at all possible) or use an extraneous amount of vacation time to spend time with your puppy. That is exactly what I did - I purchased mine during our "slow time", used a week of vacation time, and spoke with my supervisor about having to take longer breaks (45mins to 1 hr) for the next 3-4 months in order to feed her mid-day and allow her to relieve herself.
Maybe this could be something that you work out with your supervisor as well? I personally don't see why this would be an issue - after all, companies cater to new parents and aren't we quite similar?
Good luck.
I'm not rushing the decision. I'll make the necessary preparations.
I don't intend to take a fully developed dog frequently on public transportation,
(definitely in a carrier) taking a puppy on the subway just for socialization purposes.
my problem with kaiken is that they might run away. Would a kishu be more likely to run away? Or do they have another set of problems entirely?
twelve hours is just my estimation of leaving home to returning, my job location is not fixed, I also have the option to live in ny or nj, or use my car instead of public transportation.
To give you more perspective, her brother recently passed his ATTS test ( http://atts.org/ ). His owner does not live in the city, but she has done lots of work with him to expose him to different things, and he is wonderful.
My point is now i can take her anywhere, trains dont freak her out, cars, people, etc..
My second Kai is afraid of literally nothing. As a puppy she would walk on funny surfaces, our intermediate puppy class instructor did "reaction to distraction" test by dropping a metal pot from 6 ft in the air on the ground and she barely flinched. But her whole litter i think are just really solid Kai.
I think keeping a close eye on them, making sure you get a collar and/or harness that is really secure, and exposing them to things slowly with lots of treats when they're young will set you up for success with a Kai. Realize the potential for flight is there, but I don't think you should think Kai can't be around the city, etc.. i know lots of Kai that are GREAT city Kai!
Just my two cents.
But really, I think you just need to get out there and meet the breeds. All of this is really theoretical for you and you may feel very differently when you meet actual examples. For instance, on paper we thought my partner would prefer the kai ken, but he was actually really taken with kishu. I'd also sit down and do a really systematic analysis of what you want in a dog and why. Based on reading your intro and this current thread it feels like your priorities are regularly undergoing reevaluation, in part due to your enthusiasm for what you are learning about the breeds. That enthusiasm is great, but a hard analysis and a detailed breakdown of your socialization, activities, and training plan/schedule with any future dog will be far more helpful. It also allows you to send something coherent and comprehensive to a breeder that will benefit the discussions you need to have about whether one of their dogs is right for you (and if your brother still intends on getting a dog too, I suggest that he do the same thing).
*Never force them into anything, keep leash slack and let them make the decisions, if they make a decision you like (advancing forward) then praise, if not then let them get some distance away from the stimulus
*Always have treats ready. Tavi didn't take treats the first couple of times and usually won't for the first 15 minutes (too excited/stimulated). But when she was ready I was there.
*Keep things short. So so so so much is accomplished in the first 10 - 15 minutes that lingering around for an hour or so can have negative effects (also prone to puppy tantrums cause they DO need naps!). If you're doing things right, your brain should be mush after 20 minutes anyways. Its a lot of work for the both of you!
*Remember to have FUN. If you're not having fun, then pack up and go home.
*Your dog doesnt have to meet/greet other dogs / people to socialize! I don't like my dogs expecting to meet others so I usually don't focus on taking them to say 'hi'. They can sniff and gather all their info from a distance and sometimes we'll say hello.
I think one of the important things when meeting a breeder is to be genuine and polite. I don't know about everyone on this forum, but I imagine that a lot of these people don't consider themselves "professional" breeders. They breed because they love these dogs and that's their passion. Some of them may have other jobs. Even if they don't, taking care of any number of dogs is full-time work on its own, and finding owners for puppies in upcoming litters is only one small facet of that job. So just remember that we don't really know what all's going on with their lives, and to be respectful and patient when it comes to communication. If you're going to ask about money / costs I think it's fine to do so eventually, but it shouldn't be your first and definitely not your only question.
Ask questions about everything. What do they eat? How do they handle travel? How often do you walk them? How far? Do they get their shots? What kind of training methods do they recommend? Health issues etc etc. Hopefully you'll have been doing research already that will inform / shape some of these questions. Ex: "I heard that kai are skittish, how do you help combat that?" Basically, you want to show that 1) you're paying attention and you want to learn (and you're working on learning already) and 2) you're interested in knowing about the nitty-gritty. Owning a dog is a grand and lofty idea and I think it's easy to appear swept away by the ideal image of ownership, but you want to show that your feet are firmly on the ground and you're thinking about how the particulars are going to work out. (Which I think this forum shows you're already working on this and becoming aware of where you will succeed and where you might struggle.
It's not just important to be listening to advice, but watch for it too. When you visit some of these dogs, and hopefully you do get a chance to do so, watch and pay close attention not just to the dogs (because you'll learn about their personalities) but also to how the breeder interacts with the dogs. You can learn a lot about how they monitor their dog's body language and how they respond by watching them. For example, when I went on walks with the dogs with Shigeru, I could see how he held the leashes to get the dogs to cooperate and get a gauge for when (and how often/long) he would let them sniff/pee before calling them away; when we were at the dog show I got to see what signs to look for to tell they're fearful and see in action how he works with his dogs to reassure them when they're feeling anxious. You'll also get to hear the kinds of tones they use when they're praising or telling their dogs no, that kind of thing. I feel like, for people like us who either haven't owned a dog in a long time or have never owned a dog before or owned "easier" dogs this kind of experience is really invaluable.
Urgh, I wrote a wall! XD; Anyway, I hope this helps. My experience is in no way definitive and I haven't reached the holy grail of success either but if my experiences can help in any way then I want to share.
I am going to generalize, but can only speak for my dogs, Kishus, that they are primitive. They are not like a lab where they are easy going with people, easy to train, and don't require much time and like to be around people/other dogs. I am not sure about other nihonken because I don't have the experience with other nihonken breeds to know, but kishus are stubborn, mouthy/likes to bite, skittish dogs with a mind of their own who only bond with/like one adult, and they don't tend to like kids and most other dogs. Doesn't matter how much training they get, there will still be a majority of that breed's characteristics ingrained in them. Would I trade my dogs for some other breed? No, because I enjoy their essence. Did I get my dogs as an adult or puppy? Both, and they each have their own issues, some of which are the same.
Just trying to say that having a dog is like having a kid even though you are choosing which one. It's a big responsibility that should not be taken lightly. Not to say that you are not. And sometimes it is more work than having a kid for reasons all ready stated in previous posts. I believe people really need to know what their dog was bred to do, what their characteristics are--bad with the good, and if you can provide some sort of that type of lifestyle and are willing to deal with their bred behaviour and if you are willing to invest in the time; otherwise, you will either get yourself into a bad situation and/or drive yourself crazy and it is not fair to the dog.
I would not have gotten kishus if I did not think I would deal with (and actually get a handle on) their bad characteristics. I did not have the luxury of having the option to return one of the dogs, and I live where no one understands that type of dog, and had it gone to the pound, it would have been put down, and even if returning her to the breeder was an option, I would not have done that until I had exhausted all other options, which I think most people on this forum would agree on. As it stands, I still have her, love her, and make things work.
Once you've thought things through, then you will know more of what breed might be right for you. Like someone told me, it may not be the one you necessarily initially thought or "want." Happy thinking.
Omgtain: Thank you for your advice, I do need to learn more about the how and why of dog ownership. It's really a big part of why I love this forum where I can learn from dog owners.
our last dog had finally died in the service of home and household, and a new dog had moved in and started a family. During the storm we hadn't been able to bring inside before some of the pups had found shelter next door. In a place where dogs come and go as they please, to have a dog decide to move literally right feet to your neighbors', even while their mother and siblings stayed with us, is unspeakably embarrassing. Wasn't really our fault, and can't blame their decision, just self preservation. Would definitely be gutted if my own dog would run off, or their self preservation instinct would tell them life with me was less than ideal. Therefore I wouldn't get a dog before I felt the situation was right, both for the dog, my fam and myself.
@mdokic research is my middle name's middle name, any advice and all advice is appreciated.
@Ilium you're so fortunate, I'd love to have that opportunity, definitely invaluable. I do have a lot of questions, this really seems to be the best place to get some answers in lieu of personally interviewing a person knowledgeable about the subject. I should write up a questionnaire, in case the opportunity presents itself.
@asian.sapphire I'm not only looking at nk, I don't have any experience with dogs in the typical sense, so even individual breeds common to most people would've behaved differently in that environment, than they would have in the US for example. It is the same problem that makes it difficult to compare characteristics of the dogs I grew up with to other dog breeds.
I would consider the dogs I grew up with as primitive, probably more so than an nk which is selectively bred. A dog was not like a child, it was like a roommate, which is why before I decide on a Chihuahua or a BC, I'd like to be acclimated into the right human dog relationship mentality.
I definitely agree with less than ideal conditions not being fair to a dog (see above sad childhood memory). It might appear that I want a cactus canine, I just prefer a dog that would be able to tolerate being alone reasonably well. I actually do indeed to spend a lot of time and doing a lot of activities with my dog. My original question was to have an idea of how long it would be before I could be ready for a dog, I have no problem with waiting.