I think that he is not show quality. I dont plan to show him. I got him cuz he was the biggest one. So i figured healthier. But I want to be certain. I found a similar thread but the pictures have disappeared.
Another question. He is akc registered. So would he be able to show under akc standard? My wife would like to get involved in these activities. Do I understand correctly that akc has just akita? He has restricted papers so I wont be able to breed anyways. How would he be judged in akc shows? What parts of the akc competitions could I involve him in? or should I just break it to my wife that his best accomplishment to aim for would be his good canine certificate if thats what its called.
Having restricted papers means that he can not be shown in AKC, only intact dogs with full registration can be shown. Regardless, since the AKC standard is based on the American Akita, he would not do well in the show ring because he does not fit the American Akita standard (even without a single fault).
But, that shouldn't stop you from participating in the numerous other AKC dog sports that includes (but not limited to) obedience, agility, and flyball.
The full white collar and facial markings would be either a dq or no placement. But that doesn't mean you can't try agility or other performance competition.
If I phrase this poorly please forgive me. Was a limited registration given because of his markings?
I dont think so cuz Ares(my other JA) markings were not all that bad. He had a limited registration too. I thought it was so I can't breed. But they said when I questioned it that he is a red JA and his neck being white is just a marking. I had a feeling he was pet quality. But I wasnt sure. I got him cuz he was the biggest one and he was Ares brother. Ares died and it was an emotional buy. I had a choice to get a smaller male with better markings. But I decided the biggest one would be healthier. I was hiding the buy from my wife. Then she expressed interest in showing him. I have two others that would probably do good in the show but they are limited also. My wife really just wants to train him. So I think she will be happy with obedience trials or agility. I just want him to know basic commands so I am gonna support this training she wants to do. Cuz I know she will get him good at the basic stuff. Lol he is really smart. We have had him 3 days and he knows sit and down and shake. Well kinda... he is only 9 weeks old. Click on my name and look for my introduction thread for pictures of Ares and Kenji and Tachi and Mars.
Jack I read that link. So I suppose Mars has pinto markings. I wonder if you Remember tracing Ares line for me? You took him all they way back to the split in Poland. So the pinto markings I see in Mars are a bleed through of the AA that was once in his line. Dont worry Jack I am not sensitive about Ares or Mars as far as breeding or observations about their line or their looks. I appreciate the honesty.
My AA breeder is kinda upset with me cuz I didnt get him fixed at 6 month or a year and now he's 2 years and I think I wanna wait till 4yrs. Cuz Ares died of bone marrow cancer. He was fixed at 3 months old and that can cause marrow cancer. So I don't even have the restricted papers For Kenji. I dont think it possible to get the breeder to give me restricted papers now let alone unrestricted papers. I dont want to breed but if I had papers I wouldn't mind studding him out.
@T_Dog - If your breeder sold the dog on a pet (altered) contract, you are legally responsible for altering the dog. By not altering the dog by the required date by the breeder, you have breached your contract.
Also, if you purchased the dog on a pet contract, he should not be studded out regardless, since he is probably not the best representation of the breed. If he was, he would have been sold to a show/breeding home.
I dont plan to stud him out cuz I dont have proper papers. Last I spoke to my breeder she said to call her when I fixed him and she would send the papers. I guess there is no way I can prove I havent studded him out. But no breeder would even consider it with out proper papers. Like I told my breeder. I am not going to neuter him till he is done growing cuz I want him to grow correctly. I have read somewhere that 4 years is the best time to neuter. I know many breeders want it done as early as possible so they can keep backyard breeders from breeding. But this is not whats best for the dogs health. So I am gonna wait. As you can see from the video in my other thread. He is not aggressive even at two years old. Infact I have read that early neuter can actually make them more aggressive. Also early neuter will cause the chest and head not to widen and they grow to tall. So I am doing it for his health and development. Dont let my comment about studding him out confuse you into thinking that I havent fixed him cuz I have some desire to breed him cuz I simply said if I had proper papers I wouldnt mind doing it. But on the other hand I also will say I dont need the papers I dont care about the papers. I care about the health and in hindsight I know that I should just pay the extra for unrestricted papers and sign a contract that guarantees he will be show quality or I get a refund. Cuz if I am gonna pay $3000 to $5000 for a dog it better be perfect. I have studied this subject and I dont wish to debate it.
Best way to have done this would have been to ask for a re-wording of the contract to a different age rather than signing and not following. Might have been an additional penalty clause if he had been bred against the breeder's wishes, but everybody gets a win-win if everybody acts in good faith.
Hope you can mend your relationship with your breeder after you do neuter your dog.
First, the white collar. If you did through this forum, I posted 2005 memo from one of the Akiho judges explaining the white collar or when a blaze extends over the head. The short version is that the Japanese are looking to preserve the Urajiro(white underneath) markings. Once that white extends around to make a collar, it breaks the red white coloring. A white collar is like having a pinto marking so yes your are correct on that comparison. The same is true about the white extending over the head. A blaze is very common in the bred but the white blaze should not extend over the head.
So the question is does it happen? Pedigree could be a part of it. I have noticed that pups coming from pedigrees with pre-split akitas on it tend to have their markings all over the place. It could be as simple as the Japanese started selective breeding back in the early 60s(maybe earlier). Europe split in 1998.
One thing I have noticed and the Akiho judge that came out to our show confirmed is that more and more reds are being breed with more and more white. Ideally there should be some red extending down the legs(not as spots) and in a perfect world there should be red below the eyes.
Now I want to make this clear, we're talking about markings because it was brought up. If I was selecting a puppy, I would of course want a puppy that was marked correctly, but I would spend more time looking at soundness and the movement of the pup.
As far as fixing your boy goes. My 2 cents, if you're not going to breed and you're worried about him growing, I would pull the trigger around 2 years old. I recommend after 1 to my owners.
My next puppy will be several years from now. But I will be looking you up jack. Hopefully you can help me find an unrestricted puppy from a great line. I thought about getting with you but when I found out about Ares brother I admit I made an emotional buy. Cuz Ares had been euthanized 3 days before I found out about Mars. I am guessing it will be 10 to 12 years now before I lose another dog. God willing. My wife would absolutely kill me if I got another puppy. Lol
Just a note, neutering doesn't cause bone cancer. It might increase the risk in dogs already at risk due to genetic factors.
It's only been studied in one breed to my knowledge (Dobermans), without any multi-breed study to back it up. Dobermans are genetically predisposed to it, and the study focused on dogs from lineages known to have bone cancer.
But you know what we do have statistical data on? 20 years of mandatory spay/neuter for shelter puppies at 8-10 weeks old. Guess what - there hasn't been an explosion of shelter animals all dying of bone cancer...
All the same I neutered mine young and he died so I am playing it safe. That and I believe he needs the hormones. I have scheduled a vasectomy its cost $350 and the recovery time is shorter.
If you want a quality japanese akita, i'd only ever buy from an AKIHO breeder. Did you really spend that much on this dog? And they sold it as a show quality JA?
No... you misunderstood. They did ever say it was show quality. I never asked if he was I just asked if my wife could show him. They said no. They were careful not to say he wasnt show quality. But they did say I couldnt show him with restricted papers. They said he was a red JA with white markings. I had a feeling he was pet quality. I went over the fb pm's and they didnt lie to me. They just didnt tell me things I didnt ask. I tell you though since you asked. I paid $1000 for him then I paid $350 to ship him. I probably over paid. Idk. But I have found $5000 JA's that would have unrestricted papers. But they were from out of the country so I was scared it was a scam. They said it was Ares brother and I know that line is not the best. Like I said I was in an emotional spin. It was a spontaneous buy. Maybe is cuz he is JA but I think he acts alot like Ares. I know he's not the same. Ares was a mean puppy with other dogs. This one is very nice. Hopefully healthy. He was the biggest of the litter.
$1000 for a PQ pup is fine. You can take your restricted papers and do agility and stuff like that. I know one person who has a white JA and has been very successful with doing nosework with him.
Hey guys my AA is two years old and he is 90 lbs is this normal will he get heavier in the next two or 3 years? I was thinking he would get to 110 lbs...
I read stuff like this. I thought he might hit 110 one day. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akita_(dog) I need to measure him. I am curious if he reached the minium height. I know not neutering him made him stay shorter and hopefully his chest will widen and his head. I would hafta find it again but i think i read that they dont quit getting wider till 4 or 5 years old, and some breeders/showers say their line does best after 5years old in competition. I think my breeder told me his Sire was a half inch short. Bad link... it was supposed to so height of 26" to 28".
Generally American Akitas grow faster than their JA cousins. I have found that a significant amount of American Akitas do not reach that weight. If there is a decent amount of meat on the sides near the ribs and you can't see his spine or rib cage you're doing good.
Comments
He has restricted papers so I wont be able to breed anyways.
How would he be judged in akc shows?
What parts of the akc competitions could I involve him in?
or should I just break it to my wife that his best accomplishment to aim for would be his good canine certificate if thats what its called.
But, that shouldn't stop you from participating in the numerous other AKC dog sports that includes (but not limited to) obedience, agility, and flyball.
The full white collar and facial markings would be either a dq or no placement. But that doesn't mean you can't try agility or other performance competition.
If I phrase this poorly please forgive me. Was a limited registration given because of his markings?
Jack
I read that link. So I suppose Mars has pinto markings. I wonder if you Remember tracing Ares line for me? You took him all they way back to the split in Poland. So the pinto markings I see in Mars are a bleed through of the AA that was once in his line. Dont worry Jack I am not sensitive about Ares or Mars as far as breeding or observations about their line or their looks. I appreciate the honesty.
Also, if you purchased the dog on a pet contract, he should not be studded out regardless, since he is probably not the best representation of the breed. If he was, he would have been sold to a show/breeding home.
I have studied this subject and I dont wish to debate it.
Hope you can mend your relationship with your breeder after you do neuter your dog.
First, the white collar. If you did through this forum, I posted 2005 memo from one of the Akiho judges explaining the white collar or when a blaze extends over the head. The short version is that the Japanese are looking to preserve the Urajiro(white underneath) markings. Once that white extends around to make a collar, it breaks the red white coloring. A white collar is like having a pinto marking so yes your are correct on that comparison. The same is true about the white extending over the head. A blaze is very common in the bred but the white blaze should not extend over the head.
So the question is does it happen? Pedigree could be a part of it. I have noticed that pups coming from pedigrees with pre-split akitas on it tend to have their markings all over the place. It could be as simple as the Japanese started selective breeding back in the early 60s(maybe earlier). Europe split in 1998.
One thing I have noticed and the Akiho judge that came out to our show confirmed is that more and more reds are being breed with more and more white. Ideally there should be some red extending down the legs(not as spots) and in a perfect world there should be red below the eyes.
Now I want to make this clear, we're talking about markings because it was brought up. If I was selecting a puppy, I would of course want a puppy that was marked correctly, but I would spend more time looking at soundness and the movement of the pup.
As far as fixing your boy goes. My 2 cents, if you're not going to breed and you're worried about him growing, I would pull the trigger around 2 years old. I recommend after 1 to my owners.
It's only been studied in one breed to my knowledge (Dobermans), without any multi-breed study to back it up. Dobermans are genetically predisposed to it, and the study focused on dogs from lineages known to have bone cancer.
But you know what we do have statistical data on? 20 years of mandatory spay/neuter for shelter puppies at 8-10 weeks old. Guess what - there hasn't been an explosion of shelter animals all dying of bone cancer...
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
If he's in shape for his size and build, and feels healthy, the number doesn't matter.