I have a 5yr old Shiba (Saki) and a 4 months old Shikoku (Yoko), two females. Saki has no balls and she's too sweet, so I asked the breeder to get the nicest girl, which I got. I have to say that they get along pretty well, but Shibas do need their space and some tranquility. The Shikokus are in-your-face type of dog and mine is no exception.
Saki always looses a fight against Yoko. For example, Saki will have a bone, Yoko wants it too, Saki growls at her, Yoko takes the bone and leaves with it, Saki doesn't fight it. Or, Saki is peacefully sleeping on her sofa (well, our old sofa), Yoko jumps on it and is bothering Saki, Saki gets up and leave, Yoko gets the whole sofa for herself, Saki lies down on the floor. Same thing with food .... Saki eats, Yoko come to eat in her bowl, Saki backs away and waits that Yoko finishes.
I feel bad for Saki, she doesn't want any trouble, so she lets Yoko win with everything. Yoko is very sweet, but a real pain in the ass sometimes for Saki. Now I'm writing and both of them are lying down quietly next to me.
@rikka im in richmond, bc as @eljefespeaks mentioned and if you are ever in the area you can definitely meet Ghost. if i ever head south ill post here as well and perhaps Ghost can come along for the ride too!
@whobitme wow i totally want to meet a hokkaido, just before portland isnt too far from BC. there is a hokkaido in alberta canada as well!
@GrayJJ I don't come often on the forum. I did not put any pictures of Yoko so far, but I did on FB on "I love my Shikoku" group if you would like to go see.
@lindsayt Yeah, he's been here in the USA since April 4th, I just haven't posted about him. Partly laziness, partly nerves, and partly because some emotional things happened the day he came home.
Awesome! I will message you when I know next I am in that area. I want to host a meetup at my house this summer also, so you and everyone are invited (Puyallup, WA).
@jikjak - Awesome, sounds like there's a few of you in the Vancouver area. I'll see if I can do a mini Canada trip over a random weekend here in a month or two. I'll post in this thread whenever I'm thinking about it, and make sure to bring Sagan with me.
Recently been looking into Shikoku's (as well as other breeds in general.) We finally have a nice sized yard but its hard to keep her entertained all by myself. I throw the tennis ball and chase her around but she gets bored after a rounds. I also do a lot of gardening so sometimes I'm not even paying attention to her so she just hunts for lizards by herself.
Hey everyone! I think this is the right forum to post on as I do not want to start a whole new forum post for the same question. My fiancé and I currently own a Shiba Inu. Asami is a 4 month old female and is very in your face and rough and tumble style of play. She will literally take a big dog (German Shepherds, rotties, pitt mixes, etc.) down through her style of play. I have noticed a lot of people saying that Shikoku and Shiba do not mix, however if we get a Shikoku around her 1.5 year birthday, will we be able to get them to mesh well and play together? We are making a trip out to visit Peggy (hopefully soon) in order to meet with her dogs and see if Asami would mesh well with the type of play. We are thinking of adding a female into our home and I wanted advice? Thanks everyone!
I don't own either breed but have had a lot of interaction with both.. at this point I think you are doing the right thing by going out to visit. You know how Asami is with other dogs and what style of play she likes and if you can find a shikoku that meshes well with that personality I think you could set yourself up for success. Will you be taking Asami with you to meet the Shikoku?
Hi! I own two shibas, a girl who is 8 yrs. old and a boy who is 7 years old who are inseperable and when searching for our third pup we visited with a family who had a kai and a shikoku to get a feel for the breeds. We have been told from multiple sources that shikoku and shibas don't usually mesh well due to both having a strong dominant personality. I would especially be cautious with adding a second female. A lot of times females are way more dominant than the males. I know our female shiba is the alpha of the house and would clash with another one in the household. A boy/girl pairing usually works out best. We ended up adding a male kai ken puppy to our family and I think it was the best decision. It took a lot of research and discussion to make the right choice for us. I truly think that a second female would have been a disaster since my shiba girl has such a strong personality. Our new kai puppy who is 4 months old loves the shibas and has learned to read them well. It's not perfect harmony 100% of the time, but that would be unrealistic in a multi-dog household.
Well good luck in your search for a second pup. My advice is take your time researching and talk and meet as many people that are knowledgeable about the nihon ken breeds as possible. It will pay off in the end. @aeb5468
@aeb5468 - Your Shiba pup is four months old... I honestly doubt you will be able to get a good feel for how she does with other dogs until she is an adult (usually around 2 years or so). So beware of judging how she will be as an adult based on her puppy personality now.
That being said, if you want to add a Shikoku to your family, I would start by socializing your Shiba with them now. So visiting Peggy or other Shikoku owners on a regular basis would be a start.
If you have not done so already, I would suggest reading through this thread. There is a lot of great information here from people who have owned both a Shiba and a Shikoku. It seems that the general consensus is that it is not the best idea, but with a dedicated owner, a lot of work, and the right mix of dogs, it is possible to get them to co-exist.
My older Shiba pretty much immediately hates any Shikoku that she meets. My younger one has tolerated a couple, but honestly... A Shikoku is the ONLY dog that she has ever growled at. She is usually incredibly tolerant of other dogs.
I forgot to add one thing, but @sunyata took the words right out of my mouth lol.. your shiba is still too young to know for sure how she will respond to a new dog male or female. Exposure and socialization starting now during puppyhood is essential in helping her grow into a well rounded pup. Shibas can be funny and not all are able to tolerate other dogs or certain situations. Many are very aloof and independent. Be patient and get to know your puppy as she grows before adding a second dog. We socialized the heck out of both of ours and now they are very well behaved and social dogs who love people young and old. They also do ok with other dogs, but don't like them in their faces or to be jumped on. As long as the other dogs respect their space they are fine. My shibas rather be loved on by people than hang out and play with other dogs. I have also noticed that they do best with other shibas and now our kai than any other breed. I don't know if its because they understand each other best or what. @aeb5468 hope our insight helps!
Thank you so much @shibagirl88 and @sunyata and @mdokic! I would like to bring Asami out to visit with Peggy and her dogs. It is still in the works and if she lets us, we will definitely bring her. Asami currently attends 4 hour long puppy/small/medium dog (15-45lbs) socials per week and attends training 1 time per week. I am under the assumption that Peggy and Bob not only breed Shikoku, but Kai as well. I figured when we visit, we will get a nice feel for both types of dogs and their behavior, and figure out if either is the best fit. It seems through this thread that a lot of people think Kai work better with a Shiba. There is also just the option of getting a second Shiba as we know the breed and how Asami loves to visit with her siblings, parents (and parents siblings) and even Happy (a shiba that lives near us). I think once we have a visit with Peggy, we will have a clear view of the breed and their personality. Once again, I thank you all for your advice and I want you to know that I will take it to heart. Editted grammar around socials and training!
I'll chime in...given I was an eager owner over 2 years ago ^ and knowingly willing to face every challenge, I added a shikoku. Per above, my shiba was SUPER rough playing and outgoing, loved every dog and human, took on a group of huskies at the dog park, etc., so my gut feeling told me he would be accepting of any dog I wanted to add.
While my dogs got off on the right foot right away, I count my lucky stars that it went well! I do recognize that it could have went horribly wrong if they hated each other! We have met other shibas and most of them absolutely hated Takeo. He's a very typical shikoku, and fits this description to a tee http://www.shikokuclub.org/shikokuken_life.php.
After now 2.5 years of this combo, I will echo many challenges from this thread and other threads that I don't believe are really shiba & shikoku are a good pairing.
My two cents: - Many people have said to me, a shikoku seems like a larger, softer shiba -- they are polar opposites of that. I honestly can think back to the "worst" puppy days with my shiba, x 10000 = shikoku lol - I think the challenge is a shiba has an off button, a shikoku doesn't You think you have a stubborn dog now... - Kai ken's are definitely a better match for a shiba, overall. They have such a nice personality, and do really get along with most dogs - I've had other friends get second dogs (not a shikoku) and have a much easier time day-to-day, no management required! - Also something to consider, with management required, it's not as easy to find a dog sitter/kennel/play groups, etc. - Shikokus can have trouble getting along with other dogs, no matter how hard you work, prey drive trumps everything! Cats and small dogs get laser-like focus. - Persistence and rudeness are not traits that can be erased from the breed - My dogs know how to "put on a good show"...so yes, they can make a lovely first impression. The best way to know if it's a breed for you is to meet MANY shikokus, as many as you can & yes, even better if you can bring your shiba along. I do agree with the above, that your shiba is still a puppy, and their personalities do change once they are 2. - I have met many "dog" people who honestly cannot handle Takeo. - No matter how friendly your shiba is, they have a "limit"...and shikokus forever test the boundaries. Be prepared for constant monitoring. - Consider a backup plan: what will you do if your shiba and shikoku don't get along? Can you deal with separating your dogs for long-term (maybe even forever)?
That being said, My dogs are my world, and I wouldn't trade them for anything. While their relationship takes management, they DO play all day together and do get along really well. So my best advice to people who are determined to add a shikoku, think really carefully, plan carefully, and be prepared. Shikokus are great breed if you're up for the challenge -- personally, I love every minute of it! But I can also see it's not for everyone.
I have mixed feelings about waiting until two years old. Yes, its true you don't really know your NK's personality and limits until they mature. But on the other hand they're much more accepting at a younger age, making introductions easier. If introductions go poorly, which is more likely with adults, then there is very little chance of long term success. On the other hand, the longer the dogs are together *without* issue, the less likely they will develop an issue in the future. So easy introductions and growing up together reduces the chance of having problems as adults. Not to say it wont happen, dogs do change as they mature and sex hormones kick in, but they're much more likely to be forgiving of a family member / packmate than a stranger being a punk.
@PoetikDragon - How common are cases where a NK that got along well with household dogs when they were pups, grow to become intolerant of them as well? I do hear stories of some Shibas turning on their family members later on and it's a constant dread of mine as I watch my girl mature.
@Nikkitine That I really don't know. There have been a couple on this forum, though often there were problems that started when the dogs were young that just steadily got worse over time. Stuff like one dog bullying the other for months before the other finally had enough of it and then they couldn't be put together again. There have also been stories where people had to basically start all over from scratch because what they were doing to manage the situation was making things worse, and sometimes they've been successful in reintegrating the dogs. But overall, you don't really see a lot of posts about all the people who have raised dogs together and NOT had issues, you know? So its hard to guess a percentage, even just out of NKF members let alone the population at large.
Yeah understandable. I tend to overthink things, then gradually move on to being paranoid when things get too rowdy at home haha. My Shiba gets really feisty when playing with my Lab so I have I'm on constant monitor duty to make sure energy levels don't spike where she starts getting snappy.
I think it sometimes helps if the dogs are unevenly matched in some way. If one's bigger, older, faster, etc. Anecdotally, it seems like adult dogs tolerate puppies fairly well. It helps to continue socializing beyond the younger years, too. That being said, I don't know of any stories of shiba or Shikoku suddenly turning on a dog they were once OK with (except some minor scuffles in adolescence, but I don't worry about that). I'm sure those stories exist, but I'd say that's not the norm.
The other thing is that it's just harder to have two puppies at once. Dogs are a lot more work in the first two years. Of course, maybe you'd rather do it together rather than getting through those first two years and immediately starting again, haha.
It's true there's a bit of a bias in what's reported because people are more likely to post when things go wrong because a lot of people come here asking for help and advice.
I don't know. I'd probably base my decision primarily on what works best for my life.
Because Shibas temperaments vary so wildly, I can't say with great confidence that a Shikoku would be a great partner for them.
Shikokus are impulsive little ankle-biting assholes as puppies that don't take "no" as an answer (nor "how about no?" as a question). Shikokus are I-want-what-I-want-and-I-wanted-it-yesterday relentless. No matter how assertive and rough your Shiba may like to play, Shikokus will wear your Shiba down in the competitive one-upsmanship/escalation they like to do and will have energy to spare.
To this day, my Shikoku will incite reactive behavior from the most well-behaved dogs by simply a mere look (my Shikoku is likely who @sunayata is referring to).
Like I said...and I say this with the utmost endearment for my two Shikokus...Shikokus are jerks/assholes and their best play partner is another Shikoku (or a bigger dog that can easily outmuscle them).
To this day, my Shikoku will incite reactive behavior from the most well-behaved dogs by simply a mere look (my Shikoku is likely who @sunayata is referring to).
Haha. Yep. I was SO shocked to hear sweet little Nola growl!
Actually @Heidi, I was just walking my dogs when I came up with this analogy.
Everybody has that kid that loved to get physical who they grew up with during childhood. Usually they're identified as bullies but sometimes you just chalk it up to that "weird kid".
- That kid in class that squeezes your hand really hard in a handshake thinking it's a game until you fall to your knees in pain - That kid in class that would bear-hug you in play and you find yourself inadvertently in the who-can-crush-the-other-one-more until they say "I give!" - That kid in class that during recess would be the first one to suggest, "Let's play King of the Mountain!" or "Let's Play Smear the Queer (hey, it was the 80's)." - That kid that would punch you in the shoulder just because and giggle at your discomfort because they thought it was a funny thing to do. Then when you punch them back they giggle more and then punch you harder. Before you know it it's escalated into a wrestling match. Soon after that it's escalated into a fight. Then the two of you are broken up their response is, "We were just playing!"
Today's example: both my Shiba +Shikoku sitting together relaxing on the same bed (which is rare)... After a while, Shikoku decides to kick out his legs, shoving my Shiba out of bed. Of course, no less than 5 mins later, Shikoku gets off the bed lol
Comments
Saki always looses a fight against Yoko. For example, Saki will have a bone, Yoko wants it too, Saki growls at her, Yoko takes the bone and leaves with it, Saki doesn't fight it. Or, Saki is peacefully sleeping on her sofa (well, our old sofa), Yoko jumps on it and is bothering Saki, Saki gets up and leave, Yoko gets the whole sofa for herself, Saki lies down on the floor. Same thing with food .... Saki eats, Yoko come to eat in her bowl, Saki backs away and waits that Yoko finishes.
I feel bad for Saki, she doesn't want any trouble, so she lets Yoko win with everything. Yoko is very sweet, but a real pain in the ass sometimes for Saki. Now I'm writing and both of them are lying down quietly next to me.
I guess it all depends on their personality.
Have you posted pictures of Yoko? So curious!
@whobitme wow i totally want to meet a hokkaido, just before portland isnt too far from BC. there is a hokkaido in alberta canada as well!
If anyone is ever in my area and wants to meet him, feel free to send me a message. @Losech @MikoChan @jikjak @lindsayt
Awesome! I will message you when I know next I am in that area. I want to host a meetup at my house this summer also, so you and everyone are invited (Puyallup, WA).
Well good luck in your search for a second pup. My advice is take your time researching and talk and meet as many people that are knowledgeable about the nihon ken breeds as possible. It will pay off in the end. @aeb5468
That being said, if you want to add a Shikoku to your family, I would start by socializing your Shiba with them now. So visiting Peggy or other Shikoku owners on a regular basis would be a start.
If you have not done so already, I would suggest reading through this thread. There is a lot of great information here from people who have owned both a Shiba and a Shikoku. It seems that the general consensus is that it is not the best idea, but with a dedicated owner, a lot of work, and the right mix of dogs, it is possible to get them to co-exist.
My older Shiba pretty much immediately hates any Shikoku that she meets. My younger one has tolerated a couple, but honestly... A Shikoku is the ONLY dog that she has ever growled at. She is usually incredibly tolerant of other dogs.
Editted grammar around socials and training!
Per above, my shiba was SUPER rough playing and outgoing, loved every dog and human, took on a group of huskies at the dog park, etc., so my gut feeling told me he would be accepting of any dog I wanted to add.
While my dogs got off on the right foot right away, I count my lucky stars that it went well! I do recognize that it could have went horribly wrong if they hated each other! We have met other shibas and most of them absolutely hated Takeo. He's a very typical shikoku, and fits this description to a tee http://www.shikokuclub.org/shikokuken_life.php.
After now 2.5 years of this combo, I will echo many challenges from this thread and other threads that I don't believe are really shiba & shikoku are a good pairing.
My two cents:
- Many people have said to me, a shikoku seems like a larger, softer shiba -- they are polar opposites of that. I honestly can think back to the "worst" puppy days with my shiba, x 10000 = shikoku lol
- I think the challenge is a shiba has an off button, a shikoku doesn't
- Kai ken's are definitely a better match for a shiba, overall. They have such a nice personality, and do really get along with most dogs
- I've had other friends get second dogs (not a shikoku) and have a much easier time day-to-day, no management required!
- Also something to consider, with management required, it's not as easy to find a dog sitter/kennel/play groups, etc.
- Shikokus can have trouble getting along with other dogs, no matter how hard you work, prey drive trumps everything! Cats and small dogs get laser-like focus.
- Persistence and rudeness are not traits that can be erased from the breed
- My dogs know how to "put on a good show"...so yes, they can make a lovely first impression. The best way to know if it's a breed for you is to meet MANY shikokus, as many as you can & yes, even better if you can bring your shiba along. I do agree with the above, that your shiba is still a puppy, and their personalities do change once they are 2.
- I have met many "dog" people who honestly cannot handle Takeo.
- No matter how friendly your shiba is, they have a "limit"...and shikokus forever test the boundaries. Be prepared for constant monitoring.
- Consider a backup plan: what will you do if your shiba and shikoku don't get along? Can you deal with separating your dogs for long-term (maybe even forever)?
That being said, My dogs are my world, and I wouldn't trade them for anything. While their relationship takes management, they DO play all day together and do get along really well. So my best advice to people who are determined to add a shikoku, think really carefully, plan carefully, and be prepared. Shikokus are great breed if you're up for the challenge -- personally, I love every minute of it! But I can also see it's not for everyone.
Yeah understandable. I tend to overthink things, then gradually move on to being paranoid when things get too rowdy at home haha. My Shiba gets really feisty when playing with my Lab so I have I'm on constant monitor duty to make sure energy levels don't spike where she starts getting snappy.
The other thing is that it's just harder to have two puppies at once. Dogs are a lot more work in the first two years. Of course, maybe you'd rather do it together rather than getting through those first two years and immediately starting again, haha.
It's true there's a bit of a bias in what's reported because people are more likely to post when things go wrong because a lot of people come here asking for help and advice.
I don't know. I'd probably base my decision primarily on what works best for my life.
Shikokus are impulsive little ankle-biting assholes as puppies that don't take "no" as an answer (nor "how about no?" as a question). Shikokus are I-want-what-I-want-and-I-wanted-it-yesterday relentless. No matter how assertive and rough your Shiba may like to play, Shikokus will wear your Shiba down in the competitive one-upsmanship/escalation they like to do and will have energy to spare.
To this day, my Shikoku will incite reactive behavior from the most well-behaved dogs by simply a mere look (my Shikoku is likely who @sunayata is referring to).
Like I said...and I say this with the utmost endearment for my two Shikokus...Shikokus are jerks/assholes and their best play partner is another Shikoku (or a bigger dog that can easily outmuscle them).
Jesse
Basically if you ever had an annoying sibling, that's Shikoku.
Everybody has that kid that loved to get physical who they grew up with during childhood. Usually they're identified as bullies but sometimes you just chalk it up to that "weird kid".
- That kid in class that squeezes your hand really hard in a handshake thinking it's a game until you fall to your knees in pain
- That kid in class that would bear-hug you in play and you find yourself inadvertently in the who-can-crush-the-other-one-more until they say "I give!"
- That kid in class that during recess would be the first one to suggest, "Let's play King of the Mountain!" or "Let's Play Smear the Queer (hey, it was the 80's)."
- That kid that would punch you in the shoulder just because and giggle at your discomfort because they thought it was a funny thing to do. Then when you punch them back they giggle more and then punch you harder. Before you know it it's escalated into a wrestling match. Soon after that it's escalated into a fight. Then the two of you are broken up their response is, "We were just playing!"
That kid....that's the Shikoku.
Jesse
Today's example: both my Shiba +Shikoku sitting together relaxing on the same bed (which is rare)... After a while, Shikoku decides to kick out his legs, shoving my Shiba out of bed. Of course, no less than 5 mins later, Shikoku gets off the bed lol
Now I'm starting to like Shikokus :-))