Predatory Drift
We have seen this behavior before at dogs parks and ect. It's something to think about - this could happen to your Shiba at a dog park. Take note...
----
Taken from blogs.dogtime.com
What is Predatory Drift? by DogTime blogger Kelley Filson
Predatory Drift is a sudden, and drastic change in a dog's demeanor that is characterized by behaviors associated with hunting small prey. The term is most often used to describe a medium to large dog who has suddenly and uncharacteristically targeted a smaller dog as prey (dinner). Predatory Drift is NOT Aggression, but it can mean injury or death for small dogs.
Predatory Drift happens when the larger dog's instinct to hunt are triggered.
These instincts can be triggered when play escalates or gets too much like the real thing (an out of control chase game). It can happen when a small dog gets scared or injured and squeals or wriggles in a way that makes them look like prey (dinner), Predatory Drift can happen just because the size difference says, "You are comparatively bite-sized, or move like something that is bite-sized, and I am a canine predator."
The most alarming fact about Predatory Drift is that it can happen even with well-behaved, well-socialized, playful dogs who play well and often with no aggression, and no fights.
Dogs who are triggered into predatory drift, may or may not have ever been in a dog fight, and may or may not be generally well-behaved and obedient. There is NO protection against predatory drift. It is not a good dog/bad dog problem.
Predatory Drift is not about how brave, strong, feisty, or fearless the small dog acts. Predatory Drift is not about how well your medium or large, or extra large dog plays, listens to you, or how many times they have met, played with or been around a small dog.
Predatory Drift can even happen between two dogs that know each other well and have lived, played, and or known each other for years. In the right situation, a sudden shift happens and the predatory sequence (like dominoes falling) is triggered and completed with lightening fast speed.
While it is not a problem seen every day, all it takes is the slightest trigger -an injury, a fight, a response to something startling or scary. Predatory Drift is a SIZE MATTER! It usually involves a grab and shake, which instantly breaks the small dog's neck. There is no time to react. This in not a fight, it does not escalate.
There is a trigger and then it is over.
----
----
Taken from blogs.dogtime.com
What is Predatory Drift? by DogTime blogger Kelley Filson
Predatory Drift is a sudden, and drastic change in a dog's demeanor that is characterized by behaviors associated with hunting small prey. The term is most often used to describe a medium to large dog who has suddenly and uncharacteristically targeted a smaller dog as prey (dinner). Predatory Drift is NOT Aggression, but it can mean injury or death for small dogs.
Predatory Drift happens when the larger dog's instinct to hunt are triggered.
These instincts can be triggered when play escalates or gets too much like the real thing (an out of control chase game). It can happen when a small dog gets scared or injured and squeals or wriggles in a way that makes them look like prey (dinner), Predatory Drift can happen just because the size difference says, "You are comparatively bite-sized, or move like something that is bite-sized, and I am a canine predator."
The most alarming fact about Predatory Drift is that it can happen even with well-behaved, well-socialized, playful dogs who play well and often with no aggression, and no fights.
Dogs who are triggered into predatory drift, may or may not have ever been in a dog fight, and may or may not be generally well-behaved and obedient. There is NO protection against predatory drift. It is not a good dog/bad dog problem.
Predatory Drift is not about how brave, strong, feisty, or fearless the small dog acts. Predatory Drift is not about how well your medium or large, or extra large dog plays, listens to you, or how many times they have met, played with or been around a small dog.
Predatory Drift can even happen between two dogs that know each other well and have lived, played, and or known each other for years. In the right situation, a sudden shift happens and the predatory sequence (like dominoes falling) is triggered and completed with lightening fast speed.
While it is not a problem seen every day, all it takes is the slightest trigger -an injury, a fight, a response to something startling or scary. Predatory Drift is a SIZE MATTER! It usually involves a grab and shake, which instantly breaks the small dog's neck. There is no time to react. This in not a fight, it does not escalate.
There is a trigger and then it is over.
----
Comments
The owners of the black lab ended up putting him down because they didn't feel they could trust him anymore around their children. Sad story all the way around.
edit: Brandon, that is a very sad story
Although, I've seen my shibas hold their own with bigger dogs, though none the size of luytiy and the like... you should watch yours around your HUGE dogs!
If you have animals with considerable size varience, pay attention to the big ones. There are days that you should avoid dog parks, or play situations with the smaller guys. It is imperative to everyone's well being.
Introducing a shiba puppy will be a whole new level and for that we'll be bringing in a professional dog trainer.....although, with Predatory Drift, I've seen dogs who cannot, no matter the amount of training, shake it....we had a husky who truly believed that cats were nothing more than breakfast, lunch and dinner....we had a trainer with 35 years experience throw her hands up...she was one of the best in our area and not even she could get the husky to stop chasing and attacking cats.
Jesse
This is one of the reasons we're reevaluating our choice of dog breeds. We already have the felines and lagamorph to worry about.
It's important that you know your dog and his/her reaction to other dogs. As well as the other dog's reaction to other dogs in any and every possible situation.
You need to be able to predict any possible shift in the dog and squash it immediately. The chasing game is so exciting sometimes dogs just get "caught up" in the moment (especially if they've been stuck at home all day and have extra energy to burn). The dog park can be a very dangerous place. All the dog parks I've been to have a "small dog (under 18 inches)" and "large dog (over 18 inches)" section.
My experience with dogs has taught me that you CAN prevent things from occuring. It may require you to do so a couple or few steps in advanced so that you don't put your dog or another dog in this situation. By understanding dog behavior and the individual dog(s) in question...you can always prevent things from happening. It's the reacting to them quickly timespan during that split-second that we need to improve on (if you're 1 second away from a possible senario).
If either of my dogs have a high level of anxiety, they have to be worked. Nobody gets to play with anyone until that level of anxiety has dropped. Then they can play together to burn off their remaining energy. Too high of an anxiety level lead can lead to a higher prey drive level. It's just a great preventative, ya know...with a multi-animal household you can NEVER be TOO SAFE!
Brad and others
In your opinion, does this term 'predatory drift' apply only to big dog vs. little dog, or does it apply to ALL potential prey? The author discusses only small dogs. I wouldn't really consider cats as part of this...
Yes, many dog parks have a large dog and a small dog section, though sometimes the folks with small dogs don't use the designation. I don't frequent dog parks very often but there used to be one close to our home in Maryland so I could easily go during off-hours. The large dog section was about 5 acres fenced, and it was 'L' shaped. At the time, only Tuli and Guska were living with me. There were no other cars in the parking section. They sat and I removed their leashes and Guska took off like a rocket! I jogged over so I could see around the corner of the 'L' and there - along the far end was a YORKIE! NOT in the small dog section. I was panicked. I knew there was no way I could get there fast enough. The little Yorkie barked once and stood still, and Guska screeched to halt in front of him. Oh, it's a DOG! He sniffed it and trotted away. I was extremely relieved. A cat wouldn't have had a chance unless it found a tree...
Unless we are standing out there with the dogs we don't allow our smaller dogs (Maui & Kaia - sometimes Loa - and any puppies) to play with the larger dogs. Our rough "cut off" is 45lb, dogs below that weight are segregated from the others into the smaller area(s) (like the one just outside our back door - 1/2 acre). That's why we have such an elaborate fence system.
When we are out in the yard with the dogs it's not as much of an issue as our presence drastically effects the dog's behavior.
At home, it's all management. That's all it comes down to, properly managing the dogs. All our dogs generally get along, but we know some are more quarrelsome than others, so they are kept separate unless we are around. Predatory Drift is just one of MANY things we have to worry about here (like guarding agitation, different maturity levels, sexes, etc). Our fence system is just one tool we use to keep the peace, along with RAW bones, walks, time-out pens, crates, and others.
My concern is more with the dogs parks, and not so much our situation. At home, it's management, at a dog park it's a free-for-all with little to no management in place. There are to many factors that makes the situation too volatile to actually have any real control over the park or the dogs (or the people).
Also, it's not the dogs I worry about, it's the people. Like Sarah pointed out, it just takes one person who thinks their small dog does well in the big dog area... Add to that breeds like the REL (Sarah's dogs), Shikoku, Akita, or even Shiba - all breeds with VERY HIGH prey drives - and you have too volatile of a situation to really consider it "safe"; IMHO.
----
I think this probably applies to any size dog, but I think the real concern is with the large size differences. For example, I know Ahi has had this type of reaction w/ Maui. In the past she has ignited into her prey drive mode and chases him down - and been very forceful and aggressive with him. But in that case Maui is such a tenacious little dog, and they are close enough in size, it ends in a stern correction / argument. We keep them separated and have for many years now tho.
Now, if that was Luytiy and Maui, or Luytiy and Ahi, or Lani and Maui, then it could end very badly as their size difference is so large. I have seen Ahi even switch into prey mode toward Luytiy... if Luytiy became very reactive in that situation toward Ahi he could easily kill her.
So, I don't think it has to be a large dog chasing a small dog... but the large dog is who you need to worry about when it comes to doing the most damage.
----
Now seriously, sometimes Kuma gets rough on her, but they're only playing. She gets rough on him too. Of course our situation isn't a usual one. They're the same age, have been with us for almost exactly the same time (6 days apart) and were raised playing among themselves and with us.
I won't say it's impossible to happen, of course.
I could see it becoming much more of an issue at a dog park (if we had one here), with loads of dogs running free (and knowing the general mentality of people around here). I agree it doesn't even have to be a size thing, even because our dogs were bred (and still keep a lot of that instinct) to hunt large game.
http://www.ketv.com/news/15623117/detail.html
LJ - not smart, huh?
----
I hope that they have a behaviorist say something.
While it is awful that the dog died. The owner of the larger dog should not be having charges brought against her.
I had a thought about Sarah's question regarding size...
Foxes and Coyote (more foxes than Coyote), hunt small game and so they have no need for a "pack". Wolves need a pack because they hunt large game that can't really be taken down by a single Wolf.
Most dogs seem to be "pack" oriented, like the wolf, and most (hunting breeds) were bred to hunt larger game w/ the a human. So this leads me to believe that the majority of dogs have a higher drive toward larger game than smaller game (why they chase cars - but not many shiba chase cars - they were small game hunters - there is exceptions to every rule tho).
In our dogs, I have noticed that Loa and the Shiba seem more oriented toward smaller game - they chase lizards and small birds - while Ahi, Kona, and our Akita seem to be driven to chase larger game (freaking out at the sight of a horse, for example).
So, if you consider that, then maybe a group of larger dogs chasing larger dogs is as much a concern (at a dogs park or whatever) as a medium sized dog chasing a small dog.
Also, this helps explain why, in our dogs, Maui will start running, Loa will give chase, then Ahi or Kona will chase Loa, and then all the Akita will chase them. The Akita will not chase Maui on his own (usually), but Ahi and Kona will chase either Maui or the Akita, and sometimes even the CO.
Anyway, my point is, in a group of random dogs, it seems maybe size may not play as much of a role as breed does. I think a smaller dog (obviously) is more likely to be hurt by a larger dog if this type of thing happened, but I am not sure people with medium sized dogs should feel they have no threat. What happens if the friendly Wolfhound switches to prey mode - your husky/Shikoku/Shepard is in for it... probably not so much a Shiba tho.
Just a thought.
----
Watch Blue at about 00:35.
----