KF, I will of course be indulging in the spam as often as I can. Another question, if you don't mind, in terms of rewards he doesn't seem very food motivated so I was rewarding with the tea towel (he learnt sit in 2 goes) and obviously verbal praise, but how do I teach drop it with a toy as a reward?
Thanks I hadn't thought about exchanging a toy for a toy. I saw on the.. hm.. Stillwell (?) ladies show about having his favourite toys away from him unless he's using them... A selection and a hierarchy would work perfectly - thank you! Can't believe that didn't occur to me haha. Oh and the rescue guy said to try cheese but we didn't have any in, so it's an option I think maybe he wasn't eating because he was a bit stressed out/confused at the move so once he's settled in the house we might see a change.
good to learn these things though. Gotta love the collective knowledge and wisdom of this forum, I'm so glad we found it!
A game I play with my boys, though it's up to you if you want to play this with such a big strong dog, is tug with rules. I'll grab a strong toy and initiate tug. When they are really into it, I start making another toy look more interesting. Once they release the first toy for the second, I praise them before they grab the second toy, then begin tug with the second toy. Once they learned basic "drop it", I start playing tug with just the one toy and routinely tell them to drop it. Once they let go, I praise and tell them to sit before re-initiating the game. Now I use tug as obedience practice if I don't have any treats.
Great photos!!!! He's a beautiful boy for sure. I'm sure you're very eager to move so that you can be together with him for good.
Home-made toys are some of the best. Try this one (we call it the ferret): Take one of your fiances old thick socks (ask first lol) and shove a tennis ball in the toe. Then tie a knot just above the ball and pull it tight. You can play tug games with it, and use it as a toss toy. Great fun! Mylo tends to rip the ball out of the toe, so I just stick the ball in the top of the sock again, till it gets to the first knot, and then tie another knot. It's a great use for old stinky socks, and ours last a lot longer than most store-bought toys.
Also, I'm no pro-trainer, but we use the "Ouch! Command. Time-out" technique around here. If Mylo gets too rough and accidentally hits my hand (even though it doesn't hurt) with his teeth when grabbing for a toy I say "Ouch!". He used to still stay all rilled up so I would give him commands that he knows very well, like "sit" and then "lay down". Then it's "time out". Pick up the toy, and ignore him for about 30 seconds to a minute, or until he starts to calm his breathing a bit. Then say something like "Ok! lets play!" and re-introduce the toy. I've been doing this with Mylo for several months now and his reactions to me are much more careful when we're playing. If he does make contact with my hand, and I say "Ouch!" he sits right away and waits for me to give him his "lay down" and "time out". Oh, and Mylo is 8 years old and I've only had him for a year. So if we can do it, you can too =). (p.s. if anyone disagrees with what I'm doing or has another suggestion, I encourage the feedback =)
Calia, I'd heard that tug games with dogs could encourage aggression etc but I think as long as I stay in control and I can manage to teach him drop it and leave it etc, I can't see the harm in a bit of tugging. My fiance told me off for "rough-housing" with him yesterday, he doesn't seem to like to encourage much rough play but again I can't see the harm as long as I can teach him commands to stop it getting out of control, after all I'm human not dog ha. Plus it's so much fun to roll around, I'm such a loser!
It's encouraging to hear that Mylo's been able to learn new commands at 8! Shows a lot of love and dedication on your part, I must say. It was a bit frustrating when we first met Tiger that he didn't really understand us or what we wanted but now that I reflect back on it, we had him sitting for most crossings on his walks with barely a tap on the butt after "Sit". John has many, many old sports socks he doesn't wear anymore because he prefers a different style so it'll be good to get use out of them instead of chucking them! brilliant idea. I'll definitely make sure to let you know how his training in that respect goes
I was convinced that Mylo's previous owner (who all I know about is that it was a man) spoke to him in a foreign language. He didn't react to commands until I showed him what I wanted him to do, and then he caught on very quickly. I know it can be frustrating since you don't speak "dog" but your patience and diligence will pay off. As for tug games, there's a thread on the forum about it with a really informative article with rules. I can't remember what it's called, but I'll search for it and post a link in here for you.
We wondered that with Tiger too, about the languages (his family were Vietnemese) and he did pick up the sit thing fairly quickly though his repetition wasn't amazing (I'm beginning to see the truth in "if a nihon ken doesn't want to do it, it wont" a little more now. Ha). We'll see. Thanks for the link
time out works like a charm..i add the close the door in her face , it seems to work better for me--ouch had no effect.
Tug of war with rules is a very good game (does NOT promote aggression--it's in their nature). However, perhaps you should work on bonding with the dog in other ways like walking and obidience training? Or even fetch? Shao New's fav ball is a ball we got from the street.
Mylo and I bonded a LOT through working together on obedience training. We didn't join classes or anything, we just learned together, Me, Mylo and my book =0).
Oh, and my boyfriend says "Hey, nice telecaster in the back!" about one of your photos lol. He also says that he's really glad things are working out.
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Irene, I learned quickly that closing the door on Mylo is a bad idea lol. He tends to find other ways of entertaining himself while he's in there. aka. garbage bin, laundry basket etc. lol
CSM, I guess we'll have a lot of time to practice different ways of timing him out in the upcoming years it's good to have everyones variations so that if the one I'd originally thought of doesn't work then I don't become frustrated, instead I have more options. Regarding the bonding through walking/obedience first, I hadn't really thought about it at the time but you're right. I hadn't realised quite how rule-centric tug and roughhousing had to be in order to remain a safe game, I will definitely try to limit myself until we're all bonded a bit more. He seemed pretty good though, the mouthing was more a catching of the teeth to get at what I had and the jumping should be easily enough controlled (we bought a training book that explained how to teach "up" or "hug" and so now I know how to correct that, though he isn't a jumper unless he's playing).
Brad, that's ok, you've more than made up with it for your spam today.
Mylo (though I realise that's your shibas name not yours), it's my fiances. He's currently playing on it now, he was reading the thread with me but he goes too slow so I quit trying. He'll read it in his own time, far slower than I do ha.
btstevener, all I can say is that I guess your Duke is a handsome fellow, haha. And the bummer is no more because we've decided hell to our plans, we're keeping him. Life throws curve balls like this at you, just gotta go with it. I think my fiance would leave me instead of the dog, anyway
Mylo/Kyla, that's the only thing that's worked for me, she whines a bit after I close the door and just lays down and waits for me to come out....or if she's in she'll lay down and wait for me to open the door...never anything more than 30 secs though.
So, a small update is in order I think. Our solicitor went AWOL and this has pushed our house move back another week. I paid the deposit yesterday so we should, according to Mr Solicitor, be in for next friday/saturday. This is a heartbreaking length of time to be away from Tiger (and to be stuck in a half packed apartment with people traipsing through to view it whilst you're trying to sleep late in the morning!).
Fortunately due to his own circumstances the friend who is looking after Tiger can look after him until then, we visited them last week and they've bonded so closely it'll be a shame to take him away but I'm sure we'll have the same bond eventually.
An update on his behaviour is that Tiger may be dog-reactive. It's hard to know being as how I haven't seen him interact with dogs (aside from the pitbull and even then it was hard to tell). Rich (the friend) says he snipped at one of the dogs (the lurcher friend, I think) but I put it down to barrier frustration as the description of events was "Simba was trying to initiate play, Tiger was on leash and Simba was off, Tiger tried to nip at Simba but instead bit his own tongue" it's hard to picture and whilst I've pushed John for more descriptions he hasn't been very forthcoming. John then took Tiger to see Millie (his dads west highland terrier) again, no-one took Tiger off the leash and Millie was off. John says that Tiger would sniff, getting closer and closer and then leap/bounce. He says he wouldn't take him off leash because he couldn't see what the leaping/bouncing could lead to. He said he didn't notice any difference in his body language (ears, lips, chest, legs) that would point to aggression but he doesn't want to find out. Even if it's just a boisterous play, Akita VS Westie, if the former does not know how to play safely with another (smaller) dog, then it wouldn't be safe. Sigh. I want to be able to see for myself and this waiting is killing me. Also he took Tiger to see his aunt and uncle (they have a 3 year old son and a month or so old daughter). He was again on the leash and he apparently turned to correct Jamie for touching him behind the head, not having been there I can't say whether it was Jamies fault or if Tiger was reacting over the top. Whilst I have "bomb-proofed" Tiger to see if he has any sensitive spots it is a completely different situation to be caught by a pokey hand when you're not expecting it. He didn't actually touch Jamie as John had the leash.
Due to this, John feels like we shouldn't get a puppy in December. I can see where he's coming from, if it turns out that Tiger isn't ever going to be comfortable with another dog and it would be a risk to the puppy to live with Tiger then of course, I'd never put him or another animal in that situation. But it seems a little soon to right off all chances of ever owning two Akitas together. He's never liked the idea of multiple pets at one time because he feels like he wouldn't get the opportunity to love them properly. He asked me if I'd rather give up Tiger so we could have a puppy but I couldn't do that. I'm just asking him to keep an open mind so we can evaluate him ourselves over time instead of going on two incidents that happened as a relatively inexperienced handler in two new situations after such a strange few weeks. I don't think that's asking too much.
Sorry. Hadn't realised how much I needed to rant about that. Phew.
I would suggest before you make a concrete decision on Tiger and his aggression or not have a professional behaviorist assess him AFTER he has lived with you for at least a few weeks.
He is experiencing a lot of upheaval right now, and his real personality will start to shine.
I've been researching behaviorists since we first realised we'd be rescuing Tiger instead of Fostering, it seemed like a good idea even before we thought he might have any issues, there could be things we'd never notice until it was too late and something bad happened. I just wish John would stop being so adamant about NO.
That is why bringing in a behaviorist is the way to go. They will know way more than you and John. The body language you described with the other dogs does not sound like aggression at all but more over stimulation. But without seeing what he is actually doing I would never ever attempt to tell you what he really is communicating.
Also dogs react differently to different dogs, especially puppies.
There is no telling just yet. Especially with him not even being with you yet.
Today is Tigers Birthday! Crazy as it's also the birthday of two other forum pups, though I believe Tiger is a year older than them. His old owners called John today and said they had a birthday cake for him and would he collect it ? John collected the cake after work but only the husband was home and the most he could say in English was "tiger" and "cake" so we don't know whats in it, why they've spent money on a huge, expensive looking cake and whats actually in it so we can know whether we can give it him or not.
Nor do we know how long it'll last, we see him Thursday to take him to the countryside with my family. Thats 3 days away. Hm. It is a beautiful looking cake though so before we investigate it's insides we took some pictures.
knowing that they used to feed him only cooked chicken on the bone ready made in the supermarket, scraps from their plates and crisps/cakes I'm not entirely sure he'll be eating it because we wanted to try and get him onto a healthier diet. But we will investigate and let you know if he eats it/what he thinks.
As it's his Birthday I'll post a picture of him and John together, too.
In other news the house move is still up in the air due to both sides of solicitors playing silly devils with deposits and contracts and arguing about land to the back of our new home. Hmph.
Also this was the response of my brother who's living in another country to my surprise "big news"
"Please tell me your big important news isnt that you have spent a ridiculous amount of money on that furry wolf thing..." haha.
Nice cake. I wonder if the inside is chocolate though. Sorry to hear about the hold up with you house, we were stuck in closing for months. Can't wait till everything is straightened out and you can be together with your boy.
Comments
Sure, you can teach him! Stop and ignore is the best way! And lots of praise and treats when he is a good boy!
Oh more spam!
Give him one tea towel, tell him to drop it and when he does reward him with a different tea towel (hidden behind your back until it's reward time)!
Also you can try cheese or hot dogs for really yummy treats, he might be motivated for those!
good to learn these things though. Gotta love the collective knowledge and wisdom of this forum, I'm so glad we found it!
A game I play with my boys, though it's up to you if you want to play this with such a big strong dog, is tug with rules. I'll grab a strong toy and initiate tug. When they are really into it, I start making another toy look more interesting. Once they release the first toy for the second, I praise them before they grab the second toy, then begin tug with the second toy. Once they learned basic "drop it", I start playing tug with just the one toy and routinely tell them to drop it. Once they let go, I praise and tell them to sit before re-initiating the game. Now I use tug as obedience practice if I don't have any treats.
Home-made toys are some of the best. Try this one (we call it the ferret): Take one of your fiances old thick socks (ask first lol) and shove a tennis ball in the toe. Then tie a knot just above the ball and pull it tight. You can play tug games with it, and use it as a toss toy. Great fun! Mylo tends to rip the ball out of the toe, so I just stick the ball in the top of the sock again, till it gets to the first knot, and then tie another knot. It's a great use for old stinky socks, and ours last a lot longer than most store-bought toys.
Also, I'm no pro-trainer, but we use the "Ouch! Command. Time-out" technique around here. If Mylo gets too rough and accidentally hits my hand (even though it doesn't hurt) with his teeth when grabbing for a toy I say "Ouch!". He used to still stay all rilled up so I would give him commands that he knows very well, like "sit" and then "lay down". Then it's "time out". Pick up the toy, and ignore him for about 30 seconds to a minute, or until he starts to calm his breathing a bit. Then say something like "Ok! lets play!" and re-introduce the toy. I've been doing this with Mylo for several months now and his reactions to me are much more careful when we're playing. If he does make contact with my hand, and I say "Ouch!" he sits right away and waits for me to give him his "lay down" and "time out". Oh, and Mylo is 8 years old and I've only had him for a year. So if we can do it, you can too =). (p.s. if anyone disagrees with what I'm doing or has another suggestion, I encourage the feedback =)
It's encouraging to hear that Mylo's been able to learn new commands at 8! Shows a lot of love and dedication on your part, I must say. It was a bit frustrating when we first met Tiger that he didn't really understand us or what we wanted but now that I reflect back on it, we had him sitting for most crossings on his walks with barely a tap on the butt after "Sit". John has many, many old sports socks he doesn't wear anymore because he prefers a different style so it'll be good to get use out of them instead of chucking them!
Tug-of-war - an interesting read
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4078
Tug of war with rules is a very good game (does NOT promote aggression--it's in their nature). However, perhaps you should work on bonding with the dog in other ways like walking and obidience training? Or even fetch? Shao New's fav ball is a ball we got from the street.
Tiger is really handsome! What a nice looking guy.
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Oh, and my boyfriend says "Hey, nice telecaster in the back!" about one of your photos lol. He also says that he's really glad things are working out.
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Irene, I learned quickly that closing the door on Mylo is a bad idea lol. He tends to find other ways of entertaining himself while he's in there. aka. garbage bin, laundry basket etc. lol
for a second there, i thought someone stole duke while i was out of town and was posting his pics on here, he looks just like my boy
Brad, that's ok, you've more than made up with it for your spam today.
Mylo (though I realise that's your shibas name not yours), it's my fiances. He's currently playing on it now, he was reading the thread with me but he goes too slow so I quit trying. He'll read it in his own time, far slower than I do ha.
Fortunately due to his own circumstances the friend who is looking after Tiger can look after him until then, we visited them last week and they've bonded so closely it'll be a shame to take him away but I'm sure we'll have the same bond eventually.
An update on his behaviour is that Tiger may be dog-reactive. It's hard to know being as how I haven't seen him interact with dogs (aside from the pitbull and even then it was hard to tell). Rich (the friend) says he snipped at one of the dogs (the lurcher friend, I think) but I put it down to barrier frustration as the description of events was "Simba was trying to initiate play, Tiger was on leash and Simba was off, Tiger tried to nip at Simba but instead bit his own tongue" it's hard to picture and whilst I've pushed John for more descriptions he hasn't been very forthcoming.
John then took Tiger to see Millie (his dads west highland terrier) again, no-one took Tiger off the leash and Millie was off. John says that Tiger would sniff, getting closer and closer and then leap/bounce. He says he wouldn't take him off leash because he couldn't see what the leaping/bouncing could lead to. He said he didn't notice any difference in his body language (ears, lips, chest, legs) that would point to aggression but he doesn't want to find out. Even if it's just a boisterous play, Akita VS Westie, if the former does not know how to play safely with another (smaller) dog, then it wouldn't be safe. Sigh. I want to be able to see for myself and this waiting is killing me.
Also he took Tiger to see his aunt and uncle (they have a 3 year old son and a month or so old daughter). He was again on the leash and he apparently turned to correct Jamie for touching him behind the head, not having been there I can't say whether it was Jamies fault or if Tiger was reacting over the top. Whilst I have "bomb-proofed" Tiger to see if he has any sensitive spots it is a completely different situation to be caught by a pokey hand when you're not expecting it. He didn't actually touch Jamie as John had the leash.
Due to this, John feels like we shouldn't get a puppy in December. I can see where he's coming from, if it turns out that Tiger isn't ever going to be comfortable with another dog and it would be a risk to the puppy to live with Tiger then of course, I'd never put him or another animal in that situation. But it seems a little soon to right off all chances of ever owning two Akitas together. He's never liked the idea of multiple pets at one time because he feels like he wouldn't get the opportunity to love them properly.
He asked me if I'd rather give up Tiger so we could have a puppy but I couldn't do that. I'm just asking him to keep an open mind so we can evaluate him ourselves over time instead of going on two incidents that happened as a relatively inexperienced handler in two new situations after such a strange few weeks. I don't think that's asking too much.
Sorry. Hadn't realised how much I needed to rant about that. Phew.
He is experiencing a lot of upheaval right now, and his real personality will start to shine.
Also dogs react differently to different dogs, especially puppies.
There is no telling just yet. Especially with him not even being with you yet.
Nor do we know how long it'll last, we see him Thursday to take him to the countryside with my family. Thats 3 days away. Hm. It is a beautiful looking cake though so before we investigate it's insides we took some pictures.
knowing that they used to feed him only cooked chicken on the bone ready made in the supermarket, scraps from their plates and crisps/cakes I'm not entirely sure he'll be eating it because we wanted to try and get him onto a healthier diet. But we will investigate and let you know if he eats it/what he thinks.
As it's his Birthday I'll post a picture of him and John together, too.
In other news the house move is still up in the air due to both sides of solicitors playing silly devils with deposits and contracts and arguing about land to the back of our new home. Hmph.
Also this was the response of my brother who's living in another country to my surprise "big news"
"Please tell me your big important news isnt that you have spent a ridiculous amount of money on that furry wolf thing..." haha.
And happy birthday, Tiger!!!
Hopefully everything will work out soon with your new home and you guys can all move in.
Happy B Day Tiger.