So Space and I set about our worries of the approaching dental cost/pain we're both about to incur, and set out for Long Beach Island, NJ for some QT with the family. Space got to play quite a bit with Tiki (named after ex-Giant RB Tiki Barber) , my family's Golden Doodle. Tiki is an amazing, happy, friendly dog that was mostly annoyed by Space on their first encounter because he was so humpy.
Now, I know most people say that you shouldn't expect neutering to put a stop to humping and territory marking. However, I have a weird one on my hands. I haven't seen Space hump once since his neutering, and his marking has probably dropped about 95%.
So on Space's first playdate with Tiki since the neutering, I'm sure Tiki was relieved to have a straight up play session, without some annoying fox puppy hanging on his backside.
Here's a shot of the two of them I took through the screen door.
ALSO! LBI is pretty dog friendly, so I sought out a dog beach and gave Space a chance to do some doggy paddling. Well, Space really has no problem with the water until the point where he actually has to swim. He would go retrieve a stick if we threw it in shallow, but there's a point where he just stops. We actually forced the poor boy to do some swimming as well.
And lastly, an update on the pup's teeth. Our vet spoke with his trusted vet dentist friend, and was told that he wouldn't want to take any action until Space is 9 or 10 months old (he's 7 now). He also said there is still an outside chance his teeth will self-correct. That was nice to hear. They are pretty bad though, so I'm gonna start saving for that expensive procedure regardless. I was able to snap some better shots of his teeth for anyone interested.
The last pic makes him look scary. Space is the furthest thing from scary on this planet.
I took Space to the doggie dentist yesterday and got a professional consultation. The doctor informed me that this is a relatively common problem that often goes unnoticed till its much later, causing huge problems. She told me about a 5 year old dog that had been brought in because its nose was bleeding, which was actually caused by his bottom canines breaking through the palette on the top of his mouth. She says its a combo of genetics and removing the deciduous baby teeth too late, even though it was done within a week of the vet recommending it get done.
The options for repair remain the same. Braces, Extraction, or Vital Pulp (cutting the tooth down).
The doctor determined that braces might be the least effective option, and that a complete repair may not be possible with them. By the end of the consultation I was convinced that this is not a real option.
Extraction would have the longest recovery time, and could potentially cause other problems. The canine is such an important part of the jaw that it can be quite painful to have it removed. Additionally, there's a chance of jaw growth problems with a canine in place. The estimate came out to roughly $1400.
Vital Pulp again is the process of cutting the tooth, removing the pulp, and capping the tooth. The pulp part is necessary because the tooth must be kept alive. The risk with this surgery is that it is not done correctly and the tooth dies, which will later require extensive (and expensive) operations. The estimate was roughly $1200, with a $500 re-check in 6 months. Generally, if Space clears the 6 month re-check, he should not have any issues with the teeth anymore.
The likely move is vital pulp. I'm saving up now.
Then, as if I needed to hear it, she drops these two things on me as well:
1) She asks what kind of toys I give him, and I respond with everything I've been told from this forum, new-school books, and my breeder (sterilized bones, kongs, various balls, nylabones). She says, oh no, he should never be chewing anything that you can't bend with your hands. And no tennis balls, the fuzz wears off the enamel. Yeesh! How exactly did dogs survive in the wild?
2) Then this one is the best (as in the absolute worst). She's listening to his heart and says, "Has no one told you about his heart murmur?". UM NO? WTF!
People in Baltimore are VERY rescue-dog friendly, and I'm often asked (with some arrogance?) why I chose to go with a breeder. My response has always been that I know the history, they're generally healthier, and have better temperaments. I'm kind of souring on point 2. A dog is a dog I suppose...
Space seems to still be nice and happy, which is great. He's actually got TONS of energy these days. Not sure whats brought that on. He's turning slightly bratty too. I'm guessing its a teenager thing? He runs away from me ALL the time. If he's sitting down chewing a toy and I walk toward him, even with the intention of walking right past, he'll get up and run away. . It makes me sad.
Mike, I'm so sorry to hear all this is happening. It's gotta be disheartening and overwhelming to get all this at once I can't offer any advice, really, but I just thought I'd let you know that I hope things work out in the best way possible from here on with you and Space.
Mike, At around 6-10 months of age, Shibas can get that cantankerous and rebellious. I refer to it as teen angst. They'll seemingly "forget" any manners or training they've learned, and then remember it all later (be it weeks or months).
I'm sorry to hear about poor Space's teeth, but I'm glad he's taking it all in stride. Please keep us all updated.
No tennis balls? i wonder what my sister's lab will think of that?
Good luck to you and Space, Mike. I am sorry he has a heart murmur and these dental problems. At least HE doesn't know he has any problems, and is just out there bein' Space-y.
I have also been told no nylabones. Sage doesnt like them to begin with, and Reilly's teeth are soft and worn down. Our vet said "Nothing that goes *clonk* when you tap it on the floor"
Unfortunately I don't have the funds to be submitting him to get an EKG anytime soon, so I'm going to have to hope that his heart murmur is of the benign variety until a bit later.
I already knew about the tennis ball thing (plus Tetsu loves pulling the fuzz off), so I graduated to handballs. They're soft, fuzz less and bounce way better.
It depends on the severity of the heart murmur, which they can tell by listening. Unless you plan on giving Space a valve transplant, I say skip the EKG. My old dog lived 16 1/2 years with a heart murmur, and yes, it eventually does get worse but there's nothing you can realistically do about that so no need to worry too much about it.
Question: why didn't your vet pick up on this? The dental vet did but yours didn't? Perhaps get your old vet to recheck? I don't know where you are in B'more, but I reckon there are some good vets in the Towson area (I went to school there and I recalled the local vet was very good).
What is your breeder saying about this??? And don't tell me your breeder said, "well Katsu is fine so there is no problem on her end!"
About the murmur, get a second opinion, I know that means more $, but get a second and/or third opinion.
Also, some dogs outgrow it. My Tsuki did. She was diagnosed with a murmur at 5 months then cleared of that diagnosis by one year of age. We got three opinions on the latter, and it was confirmed. No murmur.
Did she give you a grade of what the murmur could be? I think it goes grade 1 to 6, where 3+ may require medication. There are some supplements you can start to research if its low grade, like CoQ10 and similar.
Good luck, sounds like you have a true teenager on your hands
Sorry mike and space. I'd hate for any dog to go through this stuff, but it's especially upsetting and alarming when it's ou dogs litter mate. Keep us informed and know you and your little guy are in our thoughts.
Katsu has started to get a little rebelious too. So don't worry about it to much.
I think your dental vet sounds like a pessimist. I'd definitely get a second opinion. I don't know what a heart murmur is/does, but if your own vet didn't notice it, it might not be too severe. What a crummy day you guys had =0( I hope things get better!
Every breeding even by the very best out of the very best has some chance of producing a pup with an off bite or worse. It is a gamble still, but the odds are stacked in your favor when you go with a reputable breeder. It's very unfortunate that Space is having some problems and I really hope he can grow out of the murmur (some dogs do) even if his teeth don't self correct.
Comments
Haha, that's pretty funny.
So Space and I set about our worries of the approaching dental cost/pain we're both about to incur, and set out for Long Beach Island, NJ for some QT with the family. Space got to play quite a bit with Tiki (named after ex-Giant RB Tiki Barber) , my family's Golden Doodle. Tiki is an amazing, happy, friendly dog that was mostly annoyed by Space on their first encounter because he was so humpy.
Now, I know most people say that you shouldn't expect neutering to put a stop to humping and territory marking. However, I have a weird one on my hands. I haven't seen Space hump once since his neutering, and his marking has probably dropped about 95%.
So on Space's first playdate with Tiki since the neutering, I'm sure Tiki was relieved to have a straight up play session, without some annoying fox puppy hanging on his backside.
Here's a shot of the two of them I took through the screen door.
ALSO! LBI is pretty dog friendly, so I sought out a dog beach and gave Space a chance to do some doggy paddling. Well, Space really has no problem with the water until the point where he actually has to swim. He would go retrieve a stick if we threw it in shallow, but there's a point where he just stops. We actually forced the poor boy to do some swimming as well.
And lastly, an update on the pup's teeth. Our vet spoke with his trusted vet dentist friend, and was told that he wouldn't want to take any action until Space is 9 or 10 months old (he's 7 now). He also said there is still an outside chance his teeth will self-correct. That was nice to hear. They are pretty bad though, so I'm gonna start saving for that expensive procedure regardless. I was able to snap some better shots of his teeth for anyone interested.
The last pic makes him look scary. Space is the furthest thing from scary on this planet.
OUCH those teeth! Good luck to you guys, hopefully everything will work out in the end.
The beach looks liked fun though. Like Kristin said I'm sure everything will turn out fine in the end.
And ouch (again) on those teeth. Hopefully they may still self correct and be okay in the end.
Has the breeder replied yet?
Poor Space.
My fingers are crossed that his teeth start to self-correct!
I took Space to the doggie dentist yesterday and got a professional consultation. The doctor informed me that this is a relatively common problem that often goes unnoticed till its much later, causing huge problems. She told me about a 5 year old dog that had been brought in because its nose was bleeding, which was actually caused by his bottom canines breaking through the palette on the top of his mouth. She says its a combo of genetics and removing the deciduous baby teeth too late, even though it was done within a week of the vet recommending it get done.
The options for repair remain the same. Braces, Extraction, or Vital Pulp (cutting the tooth down).
The doctor determined that braces might be the least effective option, and that a complete repair may not be possible with them. By the end of the consultation I was convinced that this is not a real option.
Extraction would have the longest recovery time, and could potentially cause other problems. The canine is such an important part of the jaw that it can be quite painful to have it removed. Additionally, there's a chance of jaw growth problems with a canine in place. The estimate came out to roughly $1400.
Vital Pulp again is the process of cutting the tooth, removing the pulp, and capping the tooth. The pulp part is necessary because the tooth must be kept alive. The risk with this surgery is that it is not done correctly and the tooth dies, which will later require extensive (and expensive) operations. The estimate was roughly $1200, with a $500 re-check in 6 months. Generally, if Space clears the 6 month re-check, he should not have any issues with the teeth anymore.
The likely move is vital pulp. I'm saving up now.
Then, as if I needed to hear it, she drops these two things on me as well:
1) She asks what kind of toys I give him, and I respond with everything I've been told from this forum, new-school books, and my breeder (sterilized bones, kongs, various balls, nylabones). She says, oh no, he should never be chewing anything that you can't bend with your hands. And no tennis balls, the fuzz wears off the enamel. Yeesh! How exactly did dogs survive in the wild?
2) Then this one is the best (as in the absolute worst). She's listening to his heart and says, "Has no one told you about his heart murmur?". UM NO? WTF!
People in Baltimore are VERY rescue-dog friendly, and I'm often asked (with some arrogance?) why I chose to go with a breeder. My response has always been that I know the history, they're generally healthier, and have better temperaments. I'm kind of souring on point 2. A dog is a dog I suppose...
Space seems to still be nice and happy, which is great. He's actually got TONS of energy these days. Not sure whats brought that on. He's turning slightly bratty too. I'm guessing its a teenager thing? He runs away from me ALL the time. If he's sitting down chewing a toy and I walk toward him, even with the intention of walking right past, he'll get up and run away.
At around 6-10 months of age, Shibas can get that cantankerous and rebellious. I refer to it as teen angst. They'll seemingly "forget" any manners or training they've learned, and then remember it all later (be it weeks or months).
I'm sorry to hear about poor Space's teeth, but I'm glad he's taking it all in stride. Please keep us all updated.
Jesse
Lucky for you Space is happy and healthy and he has a GREAT dad in you to take care of him. Good luck with his teeth.
Any further info on the heart? Is this a problem that will have to be fixed?? Is he in any danger if he gets too excited, etc?!?!? Just wondering.
Lots of healing and happy vibes to Mr. Space.
Good thing he gets disability leave from work...that teeth operation sounds like he will need at least a week off!
Good luck to you and Space, Mike. I am sorry he has a heart murmur and these dental problems. At least HE doesn't know he has any problems, and is just out there bein' Space-y.
I have also been told no nylabones. Sage doesnt like them to begin with, and Reilly's teeth are soft and worn down. Our vet said "Nothing that goes *clonk* when you tap it on the floor"
Healing thoughts to Spaceman.
I already knew about the tennis ball thing (plus Tetsu loves pulling the fuzz off), so I graduated to handballs. They're soft, fuzz less and bounce way better.
It depends on the severity of the heart murmur, which they can tell by listening. Unless you plan on giving Space a valve transplant, I say skip the EKG. My old dog lived 16 1/2 years with a heart murmur, and yes, it eventually does get worse but there's nothing you can realistically do about that so no need to worry too much about it.
Question: why didn't your vet pick up on this? The dental vet did but yours didn't? Perhaps get your old vet to recheck? I don't know where you are in B'more, but I reckon there are some good vets in the Towson area (I went to school there and I recalled the local vet was very good).
What is your breeder saying about this??? And don't tell me your breeder said, "well Katsu is fine so there is no problem on her end!"
I've yet to mention the murmur.
About the murmur, get a second opinion, I know that means more $, but get a second and/or third opinion.
Also, some dogs outgrow it. My Tsuki did. She was diagnosed with a murmur at 5 months then cleared of that diagnosis by one year of age. We got three opinions on the latter, and it was confirmed. No murmur.
Did she give you a grade of what the murmur could be? I think it goes grade 1 to 6, where 3+ may require medication. There are some supplements you can start to research if its low grade, like CoQ10 and similar.
Good luck, sounds like you have a true teenager on your hands
I will keep you guys in our thoughts.
Katsu has started to get a little rebelious too. So don't worry about it to much.
*non-murmur vibes from Mylo and Kyla*
Every breeding even by the very best out of the very best has some chance of producing a pup with an off bite or worse. It is a gamble still, but the odds are stacked in your favor when you go with a reputable breeder. It's very unfortunate that Space is having some problems and I really hope he can grow out of the murmur (some dogs do) even if his teeth don't self correct.