Wow, that was really great info-I read the whole thing. Leos and L about the same size, huh? I've been thinking about adding a Leo as my "big outside dog" so that's really interesting to learn a little more about LGDs.
*edit- ha, "crazy internet people", you mean like the kind that can't go a day without checking the forum?
Love the pictures and all the information...what I truly love is when you see your pics you get the sense that these dogs are truly happy and living a great dog life !!
I love essay questions for when you really want to learn something! Thanks for taking the time Brad- I enjoyed reading about your guard dogs and you write well. Not rambly. This is the stuff that isn't in the Giant Book of Dog Breeds. All of these guys are too much dog for me, but I love looking at their photos and learning about them.
How do akita compare in terms of watchdog/guard dog at home and on the road? Before I began to learn from the forum, and your akita story specifically, I'd have broadly thought 4 akita would be plenty of security for anyone...and there's that whole bit about "a kai will defend you with it's life." Is that not quite true or practical?
Did the addition of Liutiy comfort the other dogs- do they alarm any less with him on duty? "Oh, well, Liutiy's not worried about that noise, so I wont worry..."
Well, I had a lot of fun reading your story of Lyutiy's kindness and sweetness... Because his name mean "angry, temperamental and ruthless" in Russian. Did you know it when you take the dog? It is a good name for guard dog, I suppose.
I'm glad some of you enjoyed the info, I was concerned it was too much but I felt it was necessary to give the background info before I answered the questions.
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Chrystal...
How do akita compare in terms of watchdog/guard dog at home and on the road? >> They make OK Alarm/Watch dogs and their size is usually enough of a deterrent to keep an intruder out. They are not Guard dogs tho, this is a popular misconception. I think this issues comes from the difference between AA and JA. Though I have little experience with AA (I do not own one), I have heard that they can be a formidable guardian. With our Akita Inu (JA) I see a lot of strength, territorial-ness, and watchfulness but I do not see any "man stopping" qualities. Ours are either too soft, or too fearful to preform that type of role. Having said all that, this is based on my experience with the 8 or so JA I have met (4 of them I live with) and the 4 or so AA I have met.
Before I began to learn from the forum, and your akita story specifically, I'd have broadly thought 4 akita would be plenty of security for anyone...and there's that whole bit about "a Kai will defend you with it's life." Is that not quite true or practical? >> I think it depends on what you mean by "security"...
If you are looking for a largish dog that will bark at an intruder and can look rather intimidating, sure an Akita (or 4) is more than enough.
If you are looking for a dog that will engage any intruder AND be able to stop/retain them, then I am not sure the Akita, as a breed, is where I would look. I'm sure there are Akita that can and would do this, but as a breed I don't think that is a foundation skill - as apposed to a CO or a CC, who is at their core a "man stopper".
If you are looking for a dog that will autonomously patrol their territory, actively warn off predators, and engage threats when needed an Akita will not fit the bill, IMHO. Our Akita are not interested in spending huge amounts of time outside. If given the option they want to be inside, sleeping on the couch or whatever. They also seem to hate being out in the dark, as soon as it's dark they are inside. Our CO, on the other hand, prefer to be outside, and Luytiy seems to prefer to be out at night. Both Masha and Luytiy will actively patrol our property line and will warn off threats. Our Akita will bark at threats if they happen to be over in that area of the yard, but they do not actively search for them.
As for a comparison between CC and Akita, they are a bit more similar in the way they prefer to be with their owner, but again CCs are "man stoppers" while Akita are more the "bark and bluff" type.
*The reason none of our Akita meet our "trail dog" needs is because they are horrible on trail - they hate water and mud. Try crossing a stream on trail with an Akita - it's hell! They also tend to get hot in the summer (more than the CO even).
As for Kai and the phrase: "a Kai will defend you with it's life.". I think this is true of the Kai, if Jen was ever threatened I think Kona would give every last bit of himself to protect her. I also think a Kai could be trained in PP work and be rather effective - where they would fail is size. A 40lb, 19" tall Kai is not gonna do a lot of damage to a person really intent on hurting you. Also, while Kona would certainly engage a Coyote or Mountain Lion (same with Ahi), I'm not sure he would last long in that fight. The CC and CO have a huge size and strength advantage as well as traits that help protect them from injury (thick coat, loose skin, thick skin). The Kai doesn't have those qualities - qualities which exist for that specific purpose... they have great hunting qualities tho. )
So, for us and our situation, the heart of the answer to these questions is simply this:
In a situation where you need a protective WORKING dog, one that has a "mission critical" role, I would trust a breed that has been used for (and was designed for) the specific purposes and not hope that in a serious situation your Kai, Shikoku, or Akita will own up and do the job. I feel like that would be putting those dogs in a situation where they had a larger potential to fail than to succeed - and that's not fair (or humane, IMO).
I hope that answers your questions.
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Bars...
Well, I had a lot of fun reading your story of Lyutiy's kindness and sweetness... Because his name mean "angry, temperamental and ruthless" in Russian. Did you know it when you take the dog? >> Yes, I did know what the term "luytiy" meant, and it's a perfect descriptor for Luytiy's temperment if you are a stranger. Luytiy was from Tskaro's "L" litter out of sire Monomah so his litter all had names starting with "L".
What a great write up. I too enjoyed reading it all, and it didn't seem long because I got so into it. I did kind've wonder how you ended up with so many guardians. lol. I am also enamored by the CC. Being Southern Italian, we were raised to have so much respect for the breed and their ability to take care of their owner. I have always known that I will have one someday.
The big L and Masha intrigue me. They look so powerful, and yet L has this very dignified look about him. Now I'll just sit back and wait for Chapter 2 of the Guardian Story.
Haha Brad you should write a book (or update your blog!). I tend to find most 'informational' stuffs to be pretty boring but this was pretty interesting. I can't imagine how much work you guys dedicate to raising the dogs. Even I think it's tough taking care of two shibabas.
Living in a college/ghetto town, it's tough feeling safe even with the two doggies (+1 temp shiba). Their barks definitely do not portray as 'big dogs in the house so stay away robber'. I definitely would not feel safe in the middle of nowhere like where you guys live if I was alone. At least you guys thought ahead of time before anything bad happened!
Awesom spam. Blue is sooo impressive looking. He's kind of intimidating looking, but at the same time he's so cute you want to mush him (with his permission of course)
Well, the color of his eyes is diluted (like the color of his coat), but also his eyes are rounder than they should be per the CC. Corso should have a more almond shape eye per the standard. Tho a round eye is not a huge fault in the show ring.
Blue's breeder (a working kennel) actually prefers the rounder eye because the typical almond eye is very prone to "Cherry Eye". They have never had a round eyed Corso get "Cherry Eye", which is good since an illness like that can take the dog out of it's role (it's job) while they are surgically fixed and then heal. While they have had a few correct eye shaped Coros get "Cherry Eye". So they breed their working dogs for a rounder eye.
This video is pretty interesting, from a behavioral standpoint. The guardians "arguing" over a Kong and a Antler Bone. This is 100% dog, no humans around to interfere with their behavior. The dogs are so powerful, and so big, and yet they are so gentle with each other. Also note how much more "bossy" Masha is compared to the boys, this is a common theme with our dogs - the girls are really bossy while the boys are kinda passive.
Also, here is Masha guarding the yard, she is growing into her role...
Let me ask you, if something came into your yard that the guardians perceived as a threat (like a coyote or person) do you think that they would just try to kill it or work towards scaring the threat away?
Comments
*edit- ha, "crazy internet people", you mean like the kind that can't go a day without checking the forum?
How do akita compare in terms of watchdog/guard dog at home and on the road? Before I began to learn from the forum, and your akita story specifically, I'd have broadly thought 4 akita would be plenty of security for anyone...and there's that whole bit about "a kai will defend you with it's life." Is that not quite true or practical?
Did the addition of Liutiy comfort the other dogs- do they alarm any less with him on duty? "Oh, well, Liutiy's not worried about that noise, so I wont worry..."
----
Chrystal...
How do akita compare in terms of watchdog/guard dog at home and on the road?
>> They make OK Alarm/Watch dogs and their size is usually enough of a deterrent to keep an intruder out. They are not Guard dogs tho, this is a popular misconception. I think this issues comes from the difference between AA and JA. Though I have little experience with AA (I do not own one), I have heard that they can be a formidable guardian. With our Akita Inu (JA) I see a lot of strength, territorial-ness, and watchfulness but I do not see any "man stopping" qualities. Ours are either too soft, or too fearful to preform that type of role. Having said all that, this is based on my experience with the 8 or so JA I have met (4 of them I live with) and the 4 or so AA I have met.
Before I began to learn from the forum, and your akita story specifically, I'd have broadly thought 4 akita would be plenty of security for anyone...and there's that whole bit about "a Kai will defend you with it's life." Is that not quite true or practical?
>> I think it depends on what you mean by "security"...
If you are looking for a largish dog that will bark at an intruder and can look rather intimidating, sure an Akita (or 4) is more than enough.
If you are looking for a dog that will engage any intruder AND be able to stop/retain them, then I am not sure the Akita, as a breed, is where I would look. I'm sure there are Akita that can and would do this, but as a breed I don't think that is a foundation skill - as apposed to a CO or a CC, who is at their core a "man stopper".
If you are looking for a dog that will autonomously patrol their territory, actively warn off predators, and engage threats when needed an Akita will not fit the bill, IMHO. Our Akita are not interested in spending huge amounts of time outside. If given the option they want to be inside, sleeping on the couch or whatever. They also seem to hate being out in the dark, as soon as it's dark they are inside. Our CO, on the other hand, prefer to be outside, and Luytiy seems to prefer to be out at night. Both Masha and Luytiy will actively patrol our property line and will warn off threats. Our Akita will bark at threats if they happen to be over in that area of the yard, but they do not actively search for them.
As for a comparison between CC and Akita, they are a bit more similar in the way they prefer to be with their owner, but again CCs are "man stoppers" while Akita are more the "bark and bluff" type.
*The reason none of our Akita meet our "trail dog" needs is because they are horrible on trail - they hate water and mud. Try crossing a stream on trail with an Akita - it's hell! They also tend to get hot in the summer (more than the CO even).
As for Kai and the phrase: "a Kai will defend you with it's life.". I think this is true of the Kai, if Jen was ever threatened I think Kona would give every last bit of himself to protect her. I also think a Kai could be trained in PP work and be rather effective - where they would fail is size. A 40lb, 19" tall Kai is not gonna do a lot of damage to a person really intent on hurting you. Also, while Kona would certainly engage a Coyote or Mountain Lion (same with Ahi), I'm not sure he would last long in that fight. The CC and CO have a huge size and strength advantage as well as traits that help protect them from injury (thick coat, loose skin, thick skin). The Kai doesn't have those qualities - qualities which exist for that specific purpose... they have great hunting qualities tho.
So, for us and our situation, the heart of the answer to these questions is simply this:
In a situation where you need a protective WORKING dog, one that has a "mission critical" role, I would trust a breed that has been used for (and was designed for) the specific purposes and not hope that in a serious situation your Kai, Shikoku, or Akita will own up and do the job. I feel like that would be putting those dogs in a situation where they had a larger potential to fail than to succeed - and that's not fair (or humane, IMO).
I hope that answers your questions.
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Bars...
Well, I had a lot of fun reading your story of Lyutiy's kindness and sweetness... Because his name mean "angry, temperamental and ruthless" in Russian. Did you know it when you take the dog?
>> Yes, I did know what the term "luytiy" meant, and it's a perfect descriptor for Luytiy's temperment if you are a stranger. Luytiy was from Tskaro's "L" litter out of sire Monomah so his litter all had names starting with "L".
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The big L and Masha intrigue me. They look so powerful, and yet L has this very dignified look about him. Now I'll just sit back and wait for Chapter 2 of the Guardian Story.
Living in a college/ghetto town, it's tough feeling safe even with the two doggies (+1 temp shiba). Their barks definitely do not portray as 'big dogs in the house so stay away robber'. I definitely would not feel safe in the middle of nowhere like where you guys live if I was alone. At least you guys thought ahead of time before anything bad happened!
That's a good point, I should save this stuff for my blog. lol
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And a pretty sunset...
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Masha is super cute, I still just want to throw my arms around her and cuddle her like a teddy bear!
Masha looks like such a fluffy bear.
and Masha looks very happy!
Love happy dogs.
Blue is funny, he looks like he is maturing but still look so much like a puppy to me.
I love the first pic of Masha, she is so cute in it.
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Masha is winning me over
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Excellent shots, Brad.
Blue has such a range of expressions in his eyes.
It's easy, he is thinking/saying one of these things:
- I'm sorry.
- What's that?
- Please give me food.
- Please let me out.
- Please let me in.
- Please pet me or something.
That's pretty much it. That's the extent of Blue's existence. LOL
(I'm joking, he is very smart)
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Blue's breeder (a working kennel) actually prefers the rounder eye because the typical almond eye is very prone to "Cherry Eye". They have never had a round eyed Corso get "Cherry Eye", which is good since an illness like that can take the dog out of it's role (it's job) while they are surgically fixed and then heal. While they have had a few correct eye shaped Coros get "Cherry Eye". So they breed their working dogs for a rounder eye.
Interesting, huh?
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I like his round eyes better. Instead of blending in, they pop. You can't help but stare at them in the pics.
*Who's there?
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This video is pretty interesting, from a behavioral standpoint. The guardians "arguing" over a Kong and a Antler Bone. This is 100% dog, no humans around to interfere with their behavior. The dogs are so powerful, and so big, and yet they are so gentle with each other. Also note how much more "bossy" Masha is compared to the boys, this is a common theme with our dogs - the girls are really bossy while the boys are kinda passive.
Also, here is Masha guarding the yard, she is growing into her role...
*Not the greatest video, but you get the point.
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Let me ask you, if something came into your yard that the guardians perceived as a threat (like a coyote or person) do you think that they would just try to kill it or work towards scaring the threat away?