Random q's about the breed
Since I am a research nut when it comes to dog breeds and even worse when it is one that I think I may like to own one day, and there is nothing really online regarding this breed.
I was just wondering, all breeds have their health issues, what are the health issues for this breed? What genetic testing is done on breeding stock?
Now, CKC had them in Misc. Class, where are they now since the Misc class is gone? Are they in basically like the TM and have been placed in a group and can be shown still?
Is there a breed club for the breed?
I wouldnt imagine the stud books being closed or heading in that direction as really only the Tibetan Mastiff Club of America would do such a thing, but what is the import status of the breed? Does CKC still register them at all? What registry would the "bulk" of the breed be found in?
I imagine the waiting list would be pretty long for one of these dogs, but how long on average have people waited?
What is the "normal" price range of the breed?
There is so little information on them that is easily found online and it is enough to drive someone like me crazy.
Thanks to all that can help with some of my first few q's on the breed.
I was just wondering, all breeds have their health issues, what are the health issues for this breed? What genetic testing is done on breeding stock?
Now, CKC had them in Misc. Class, where are they now since the Misc class is gone? Are they in basically like the TM and have been placed in a group and can be shown still?
Is there a breed club for the breed?
I wouldnt imagine the stud books being closed or heading in that direction as really only the Tibetan Mastiff Club of America would do such a thing, but what is the import status of the breed? Does CKC still register them at all? What registry would the "bulk" of the breed be found in?
I imagine the waiting list would be pretty long for one of these dogs, but how long on average have people waited?
What is the "normal" price range of the breed?
There is so little information on them that is easily found online and it is enough to drive someone like me crazy.
Thanks to all that can help with some of my first few q's on the breed.
Comments
I'm a Shiba owner and know if/when I own a Shikoku it will be after my Shibas pass, so I don't have all the answers for you. But here's what I do know.
As I understand it, the Shikoku doesn't have any known health defects *common* to the breed. There are certainly isolated cases of problems. Brad's Ahi is one example (poor girl :-(). I'll let Brad give you the details since he obviously knows way more about Ahi's problems than I do.
We had a discussion a while back about genetic testing of the Shikoku. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it since I have no plans to breed, but if I recall correctly the outcome of that discussion was very little testing is done by Japanese breeders, but the breeders in the US and Canada are trying to start a database with eyes, hips, and elbows for as many Shikoku as possible (even those that won't be bred). I'd imagine this is still a year or so away though.
No idea about registration and showing. Sorry.
Yes, there is a Shikoku club. The founding members and officers are all forum members. I don't believe they have a website yet. One of them can undoubtedly give you better information though.
Anecdotal evidence indicates the waiting lists for Shikokus are at least a year, sometimes 2 if you catch it at the wrong time. Prices are in excess of $3,000 US, probably more if you import.
I hope this helps some. I'm sure other forum members more active with the breed can be a bit more informative or at least validate what I've said.
with UKC they are in the "northern" group; here is the standard
http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/Shikoku
Rarities (North American Kennel Club) uses the FCI standard 319. They are in the Spitz and Primitive group.
Kishu Ken and Kai Ken are both FSS (Foundation Stock Service) with AKC, but the Shikoku is not.
There are three Shikoku in the OFA database
AKASHIMA'S KOCHI KEN AIKO MURA
YANA-NANAKO V. D. EGMATO
ZORA-NANAKO V.D. EGMATO
I can't speak much on known health problems. Most primitive hunting spitz are fairly robust.
The few Shikoku I have seen tend to be a bit straight behind. It would be prudent to check their patellas.
The most common orthopedic problem for dogs in general is hip dysplasia, so hopefully breeders are assessing this in their breeding dogs.
Good luck.
o2. The wait list can be anywhere from 6 months, to a year, to two years. It depends on what type of pup your are looking for, and what type of breeding the breeders have planned. Sometimes a bitch gets pregnant, sometimes she does not. Sometimes you are put on a waiting list and get a pup earlier than you expected, sometimes you get delayed for another year or so.
o3. I'm not too sure about price range, but I believe Dave is correct in the $3000 USD range. [ more likely to be higher than lower ] Note that this excludes the cost of shipping the pup.
Hope that helped. ~
Ahi is the first Shikoku in North America to have Luxating Patella issue - both her parents tested clear for it tho, so the issue probably came from an earlier member of her pedigree [in Japan]. Breeders in Japan tends to not do health checks on their dogs.
Given that there is only about 50 Shikoku in North America, a lot of the questions you asked are about things that are in the process of being formed - like the breed club and a pedigree database. Please keep in mind that this breed is very new to North America - the first North American litter was only 4 years ago.
There is not much info on the breed, that is why I started this forum - it started as solely a Shikoku Ken forum to support the earliest Shikoku owners. If you look at the earliest posts you will get a feel for how small the Shikoku community really is.
This forum has some really resourceful members and members in Japan that can give "ground reports" on the various Nihonken breeds. So, as this community grows, it continues to be the primary place for people in Europe and North America to get Nihonken info.
Let us know if you have any other questions.
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I'm suppose to give him a call this week. I'm writing a list of things to talk to him about. I can't swarm him with too many questions. I will maybe have to spread them out between serveral calls. I will definitely ask him about any common health issues he has seen in the breed. So please, be patience, the answers will come.
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Corina - If you could, ask him to send all of us a puppy. :oP
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I'll take two
Jesse
Great Christmas gift for sure, eh.
Brad - I'll give Mark a call. The AKC Invitationals are coming up in December, maybe he, Jeff, Minion (Tervuren) and Aibo will be going? I'll find out!
Jesse
It'd be a lot cheaper to just have someone go to Japan or come visit from Japan with the puppy (assuming said person already has business in Japan or said country of transport). It is only $200 to fly a pup with a passenager.
Now one is allowed to crate 2 puppies together under a certain age. Let's just say the pups are around 8 weeks-9 weeks here...it STILL would only be $200 to fly pups as one pays for crate space in baggage area.
So, the discount would be about $1,300-$1,400 off. The person going to or coming from Japan would be doing puppy owner a favor.
Puppy owner would then only be responsible for...
...cost of puppy from breeder
...cost of health check/microchip
...cost of JKC/NIPPO registration (Pedigree will be mailed about 2-3 months after to said address overseas)
...any additional shipping/travel fees within country to acquire puppy
...cost of shipping with passenager fee
(above totals would be "small" fee -smirks-)
I'd say that's a pretty good discount, since someone would be bringing puppy to you. No need for purchase of flight tickets which are generally $850-$1,300 roundtrip or more.
Jessika - I love it! Buy 3 and get 1 free, gee what a bargin, hahah.
JKC/NIPPO registration is arguably optional, since we've got our own breed club. :)
Corina has stated that it costs $200 to bring a pet with you on the flight from Japan to the States.
Not to be understated is getting to Kochi-ken for your Kochi Ken, meeting the breeder, obtaining pup, and then travelling back to the airport. That will be an adventure! It will involve getting lost in Japan, which is actually kind of fun, and will also involve slogging through the train system with heavy luggage, which is considerably less fun. Presumably you could hire a taxi or something but that's going to be vastly expensive. And the language barrier, if you have no Japanese, will be stronger down in that area than it would be if you were in Tokyo or Osaka.
I'm mostly interested in what the breeders usually charge in yen for puppies myself.