Shikoku Tummy Problems?
Hey everyone, I am Mura's Mommy and this is the first time I have been an active participant in this forum.
Mura, a 10-month old Shikoku female, has been having problems with her tummy. Specifically, and I hate to be gross, she has reoccurring diarrhea.
I am wondering if any other Shikoku owners have had similar difficulties.
Here is what we have done so far:
1. Taken her to the vet (in fact, we've been there so many times they know us very well - we are very concerned parents!). The vet has prescribed special canned food made of boiled chicken and rice with instructions to gradually return Mura to her normal dry Eukanuba puppy food). This seems to help, for awhile. She goes back in her normal food and ok okay for a few weeks, but the diarhhea eventually returns.
2. Ceased edible dental chew bones and raw hide - as we suspected these could be causing the problem.
3. Ensured that she is not eating anything else around the house.
Mura has always had a sensistive tummy. She gets car sick if she has eaten anything in the last few hours and throws up if her tummy is empty as well. These issues are easy to prevent. The diarrhea, however, is a larger concern.
Any similar experiences? Advice?
Mura, a 10-month old Shikoku female, has been having problems with her tummy. Specifically, and I hate to be gross, she has reoccurring diarrhea.
I am wondering if any other Shikoku owners have had similar difficulties.
Here is what we have done so far:
1. Taken her to the vet (in fact, we've been there so many times they know us very well - we are very concerned parents!). The vet has prescribed special canned food made of boiled chicken and rice with instructions to gradually return Mura to her normal dry Eukanuba puppy food). This seems to help, for awhile. She goes back in her normal food and ok okay for a few weeks, but the diarhhea eventually returns.
2. Ceased edible dental chew bones and raw hide - as we suspected these could be causing the problem.
3. Ensured that she is not eating anything else around the house.
Mura has always had a sensistive tummy. She gets car sick if she has eaten anything in the last few hours and throws up if her tummy is empty as well. These issues are easy to prevent. The diarrhea, however, is a larger concern.
Any similar experiences? Advice?
Comments
Your best bet would be to make a switch to a grain free diet, or a diet with no by-products in it.
Some food suggestions are Orijen, Wellness, Canidae. There are plenty of excellent dog food brands out there!
My advice for now is to quit feeding Eukanuba and learn more about truly high quality dog foods. Visit Whole Dog Journal's website and purchase their food review issues from earlier this year. I'd look for a grain free dog food. Not all dogs excel on the same brands so it could take trial and error. Good foods include Orijen, EVO, Wellness, Solid Gold, Merrick, and there are many more.
You might also want to look into seeing a holistic vet in your area about setting up a natural diet of either raw or home cooked dog food. Or at least better nutrition through commercial products. I, and many others, don't really trust regular vets for nutrition information. They are compensated for selling certain products, that are not always the best.
Have you tried keeping Mura on a probiotic powder or pill?
Although, I do not own a Shikoku - My dogs have had their share of upset stomaches.
If your vet thinks it has something to do with food - I would highly suggest trying a grain-free diet or a higher quality food. Such as Orijen, EVO, Solid Gold, etc. You may also try giving her real cooked chicken and rice (not canned) - Boil up some chicken breasts and mix it with some rice, that usually helps settle upset stomachs. Also - I noticed when I feed The Honest Kitchen dehydrated raw diets - my dogs poop is very firm...and they seem to poop more.
I would also recommend adding some probiotics to her meals. I use Naturvet Probiotics & Enzymes, but there are a lot of different brands out there. You just sprinkle the recommended amount on top of her food. It should help with the digestion and firm up her stools.
I hope that helps! If you have any other questions, feel free to ask! BTW - Mura is pretty!
I met up with a Shiba breeder not long ago and she says to try him on Salmon & other fish foods. Then see how he does. She guarantees that I will see a difference in his coat and over all being. So, we'll see. I've been feeding him a mixture of canned Salmon & Sardines this past weekend. Today, I'm going to look around for other "fish-only" kibble food brands. Eventually, I think I'm just gonna go back to a completely raw diet, once I can be sure that my dogs are getting every nutrition they require.
So now, I'm trying to stay away from any Chicken, Turkey and Beef products for him. Going to start feeding salmon/fish products predominantly and maybe try out lamb and see how he does with it.
*Also...canned wet dog food gives my dogs diarrhea (at least Kei-kun and Lynx, not sure about Komi-chan yet).
Good luck with your Shikoku girl! I hope she will feel better soon.
By the way - WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!
Everyone has given some great advice, so just find out whichever works for Mura. There are no "rights" and "wrongs"...just whatever works for your dog -nods-.
Our Shiba, Bella, has had a lot of trouble with her digestive system. And in the end, she was allergic to corn (among other issues). Once we got rid of the other issues (that is a story for another time), she got better, but was still having runny bowl movements. After a lot of trial and errors, I finally switched her over to a grain free food. And low and behold... after about 3 days, soild poop! :-D
We did have a fecal sample done several times at the vet. They do not believe that the problem is a parasite.
Thank you for your comments about Mura. We love our girl. She is from Katja's Kennel and she is from the same litter as Jessica's Shikoku. We got them together to play when they were little puppies.
Yes, do the switch gradually as you don't want to upset her tummy any more. Hopefully it helps!
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com
What you should do is go to reviews and print out all of the 6 and 5 star brands. Take the list to your vet and ask if he or she has any opinions, then hit your local PetCo or PetSmart and see what they carry. That's what I'd do. You might find that people on this forum rave about a couple of brands but you can't find them.
Anyway here's the page on Eukanuba dry puppy food of medium dogs (which might not be exactly what you are feeding her):
A HREF="http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=114&cat=7">http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=114&cat=7
Pros: First ingredient is a named meat product.
Cons: Uses by products, low quality grains and other controversial filler.
The first ingredient in this food is a named meat product. This is chicken inclusive of its water content which, once removed as it must be to create a dry food, will leave the ingredient weighing around 20% of its wet weight. It is thus unlikely that this is the true first ingredient in the food but would be more accurately placed further down the ingredient list.
The second ingredient is by-products. It is impossible to ascertain the quality of by-products and these are usually products that are of such low quality as to be rejected for use in the human food chain, or else are those parts that have so little value that they cannot be used elsewhere in either the human or pet food industries. We recommend avoiding any pet food using such ingredients. The AAFCO definition of chicken by-product meal is “a meal consisting of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.”
The main grain in the food is corn. Corn is difficult for dogs to digest and thought to be the cause of a great many allergy and yeast infection problems. Brewers rice is a further low quality grain and by-product.
The inclusion of a second meat product (fish meal 5th on ingredient list) is appreciated. However the manufacturer does not claim to use ethoxyquin-free sources (ethoxyquin is a chemical preservative commonly added to fish meal, and that is banned from use in human food because it is believed to be carcinogenic).
Beet pulp is another controversial ingredient – it is a by-product, being dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. It is a controversial ingredient in dog food, claimed by some manufacturers to be a good source of fibre, and derided by others as an ingredient added to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats and causing stress to kidney and liver in the process. We note that beet pulp is an ingredient that commonly causes problems for dogs, including allergies and ear infections, and prefer not to see it used in dog food especially so high on the ingredient list. There are less controversial products around if additional fibre is required. We would prefer to see the use of whole eggs rather than egg product.
Also, if anybody else has found any similar sites for dog food, please post them.
I sure do a lot of research considering I'm at least a year away from getting a dog.
This is how I transition my dogs from different foods:
Start with a mixture of 25% new and 75% old and feed that for 2-3 days
Then step it up to 50% new and 50% old for another 2-3 days
Finally end up with a combo of 75% new, 25% old.
If you don't detect any changes in their digestion over the transition period, you can start feeding the new food exclusively.
Hopefully your city is covered.
The smaller stores are more likely to carry the better dog foods. The big stores give space to those willing to spend major marketing dollars and that's going to be the "big" guys in the pet food world.
It is Jessica, Miko's mom. I met you with Paul over the summer. I stopped feeding Miko dog food a few months ago, she was a picking eater with a sensitive stomach. I have been following the guidance of a holistic vet, Dr. Sharon Doolittle in Smithfield Rhode Island. She specializes in wellness and is passionate about dog nutrition.
Here is her website.
I swear by her!
http://www.holisticanimalvet.com/home.htm
I would strongly suggest getting her off the Eukanuba big time though. I took Miko off it almost immediately. We should have a play date soon.
You may want to ask your vet for a dewormer even if her fecal is negative. It can't hurt and will help rule out a parasite that's being stubborn. The cyclic nature of her diarrhea episodes makes me think it might be a parasite like giarrdia or hookworm that's dormant for a while and won't show up on fecal exams. Flagyl, Pancur, or Drontol each should do the trick.
If in fact you are dealing with a food intolerance or a food allergy, you will need to be patient as it can take a long time to figure out the cause. I think you've got the right attitude in being very careful about what she eats. When trying to isolate problems, you need to monitor everything your dog puts in its mouth inside the house and out.
I would definitely follow the advice to change her food first and foremost. In doing so, make sure you try to eliminate any overlap in the ingredient list of the new food with the Eukanuba you have been feeding her. Going with a fish protein-based diet like Wellness Core Ocean, Orijen 6 fish, or Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream, might be a good idea. They are all high quality and grain free. Transition Mura slowly as Romi suggested. There are situations where a crash change is the right thing to do, but it doesn't sound to me like she is in one of those situations right now.
Also, starting her on a probiotic and/or digestive enzymes like has been suggested will help greatly. For probioitic, I recommend the Vetri-science Mega Probiotic ND. Its 100% vegetarian so if she does have a protein intolerance or allergy, it shouldn't aggravate that. You'll have to get it from your vet though. I've been using digestive enzymes with Joey from solid gold (the "D-zyme powder") with good success.
When selecting treats to give to her, look at the ingredient list carefully and compare it to the ingredient list of the food you choose. Limiting the extra ingredients in her diet will help you to stabilize her and allow you to try to isolate potential problem ingredients later on.
If she is having really soft diarrhea, canned pumpkin may not help. If her stools is just not as firm as you might like, consider adding some canned pumpkin (not the pie filling with added sugar and crap) to her diet. 1 teaspoon for 1/2 cup of kibble is probably the right dose. You can administer this forever if you want, but I would try it on a short term basis first to see if it is having an effect or if the diet change is what is causing her improvement.
Also, be prepared to try multiple diets. Joey took 6 different diets before I found two that works well for him (I'm still searching for a third). Depending on your dog, they may appear to improve and then stop tolerating the diet a few weeks to a month later. If that happens, first rule out other causes like a virus picked up at daycare or the dog park or a parasite before trying another diet change. If you've ruled everything else out, then try another protein source.
I know I've basically just reiterated what others have said, but I hope this helps.
You have a very pretty Shika!
I am the Shikoku owner in PA that Paul came to visit (Kuma is my puppy) that motivated him to go ahead and get a Shikoku. At the time he was in contact with Peggy, but Katja had a litter sooner and so he signed up on her waiting list. Did I meet you in PA with Paul? I remember someone came with him, but do not remember her name.
Yes, Shikoku do have some what sensitive stomachs, at least for car sickness. My boy routinely got car sick from about 12 weeks old till about 8 mos old. He is now super in the car are grew out of the car sickness. But it did seem that all Shikoku owners reported that their Shikoku puppies got car sick.
I would recommend a switch (like everyone else) off of Eukanuba. I know that Peggy fed her Shikoku Orijen with good results. I feed Eagle Pack Holistic Selects right now, but it is as a supplement to the raw that I feed Kuma (mainly raw chicken, beef or fish). Kuma has never had a diarrhea problem on this diet and seems to be doing well. He is a picky eater for kibble, but not for the raw. I would bet that Mura's issues are with the kibble. Can you try feeding her some raw chicken to supplement her kibble? Also, for chewing, I buy the beef soup bones at the meat department. Rawhide is not good for dogs and I don't like the "dental bones" either. Kuma has done great with these beef soup bones and it gives him something to chew on.
Good luck with Mura! Hopefully you and Paul are enjoying her as much as I enjoy my Kuma. When Paul met Kuma, I think he fell in love right away (Kuma is a sweety and lovey dog).
Yes, I did come to your house to see Kuma. Meeting Kuma is absolutely what convinced us to get our own Shikoku. Kuma was such a great puppy! How big is he now?
For those who feed their dogs raw meat, where do you usually get it? Is there a certain grade or quality to look for? Do we need to worry about bacterial infections from eating raw meat?
It think you guys live near Natick right? If you do Pet World on Route 9 across from the Natick mall carries a bunch of different raw diets as well as all of the kibbles mentioned above.
we get our dogs human grade chicken parts to eat (except feet, they come from hare-today)
Raw meat correctly handled, froze, thawed and prepared will not cause bacterial infections. Do NOT feed at the same time as kibble because raw needs to be digested properly and kibble can slow down that process. Probiotics and digestive enzymes are great to help your dog ease into raw feedings.
Also check out:
http://rawfed.com/
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm
http://lowchensaustralia.com/sitemenu.htm (the dog nutrition section is amazing)
Its a fun transition! Do some research if you are considering and have fun with the diet - Mura will thank you!
Well, I am glad that Kuma had such an impression on you and Paul! LOL! He is now 14 mos and is 20 inches tall and about 35 lbs.
I buy my chicken and beef/beef bones at the grocery store. I usually buy the chicken whole legs, which are cheaper than just thighs, just legs, or just breasts. I buy the large family pack and freeze what he cannot eat within a few days (ie, by the sell-buy date). Or I buy a whole chicken and cut it up. I don't generally cook it (but sometimes I do, but then he doesn't get the bones). So far he has been doing great on it (I feed it outside as it is a bit messy). He does get free choice kibble if he wants. I also don't buy pork, only beef or chicken or fish.