It is obvious, thanks But I'm far to close to the puzzle right now, I couldn't even think of e-collar to help stop Tsuki's face from becoming worse and worse from her itching..
I sort of assumed you could smell mold when you have a problem in the house? We do use air purifying fans, but we'll have to be more investigative and find the problem if thats what it is.
I'm also researching Atopica.. but I hate to give her anything that could cause both lowered immunity and gastro issues. Her comfort is more important, I guess.
Inhalant allergy, or atopy, is the most common kind of allergy seen in pets. The condition is similar to hay fever in people, but the symptoms are manifested in the skin rather than the respiratory system. Dogs may be allergic to tree pollen, grass pollen, weed pollen, mold spores, and house dust mites. Allergies to plant pollens are usually seasonal. Mold and house dust can create problems anytime of the year.
Symptoms: Usually the same for any of the inhalant allergens. Dogs will typically scratch, shake their head, rub their ears or muzzle, or lick their feet.
Treatment: There are several methods to treat inhalant allergies. The most common method is to give anti-inflammatories. Corticosteroids and antihistamines, if used carefully, can be a safe, effective way to treat allergies. Your veterinarian can best determine what combination and dosage should be used. Medicated Shampoos may also be used to treat allergies. Hypoallergenic shampoo is soothing and can provide temporary relief to inflamed skin.
Allergy testing is also available to determine what the pet is allergic to. Samples of possible allergy causing substances are injected under the animals skin. After a short time the area is checked for an allergic response. There is another type of allergy testing in which a blood sample is taken and submitted to a laboratory that tests for different plant and food items that may be causing your pet to itch. Once it is determined exactly what is causing the allergic reaction, the lab can develop a vaccine to desensitize your pet to those substances. Allergy testing and desensitization are a developing science and show some promise for managing allergies without depending on steroids."
for us the vet reckoned it was the mold spores since it's been so rainy here in the NE ..and sure enough when it rained again overnight she had her sneeze attack after we came back in the morning, but stopped after we gave her the claritin.
If you have a basement and they play there maybe it's present there as well? Worth a look..
Have you ever used a carpet powder for fleas? Or any type of carpet powder? My old roommates dog got fleas and spread to all the dogs in the house. He tried some carpet flea powder and Sachi would itch, almost immediately, at any body part that had direct contact with the carpet. We had to shampoo the carpet to get it all out. The reason I mention carpet powders, or any type of stuff for carpets, is because Tsuki started ithching after rubbing her face on the carpet. And just in case it is mold, I kinda feel like a hippy for saying this, you could burn tea tree oil to kill stuff in the air, until you find mold or rule it out. Is mold in the carpet possible? I hope Tsuki feels better soon.
I had thought about that too - what have we done to the carpet! But nothing, no changes in our carpet treatment whatsoever. At the most, we steam clean it with 7th Generation solution, at the least, we vacuum it. That's it.
Jen - Get a dehumidifier for your home. That has worked fairly well for me with keeping the mold from growing in the house.
Depending on how bad the problem is (as in black mold in the walls, ceiling, etc.), you may have to have a professional come and test the house and remove the mold. (If you rent, your landlord is responsible for this, at least in VA.)
My biggest issue is the mold outside and in the building I work in. (Yay for government jobs!) A lot of allergy medicine does not work for me (and some I am even allergic to because of its ingredients), so I usually have to suffer through it.
Hopefully the steroids will help Tsuki out. And while it may not have any allergy reducing effects, Desitin (sp?), the diaper rash ointment is good at soothing the itch and helping heal the skin. Plus, it is non-toxic so if she happens to lick it off or get it in her eyes, it should not bother her.
Wow jen it sure does look like allergies and from what you describe you have ruled out a lot. It's good you are looking into options now before it gets worse.
For cortisone shots you cant give that too much. For oral cortisone medication, the rule of thumb is if the dog must be on it for more than four month out of a year you should look into other alternatives. I would definitely consult with a veterinary dermatologist.
Also for dogs on oral meds and prednisone etc. there can be behavior changes. Some animals can not tolerate the meds, so keep that in mind. If you notice jitters, twitching, excessive panting, water intake and irritability in the pup seek an alternative with the vet.
I don't believe the serum analysis for allergies is as reliable as the intradermal testing is. Dust mites are always present and for most of us not living in arid areas, molds and pollens are present most of the time no matter what so desensitizing towards them vs sterilizing the environment makes more sense to me, because what happens then if the dog basically lives in a ultra clean bubble and then goes somewhere new? Super allergy flare up. The allergy shots have really helped my one dog.
Oh I forgot to mention the the Atopic solution is really a miracle for severe cases. In the past I don't want think about what owners would do for hard core cases...apparently it is so bad in some dogs they will tear the cornea and damage their eyes.
The immunity suppression thing sounds scary I know. However, the veterinary dermatologist indicated that Atopic suppresses the IGE antibody protein (allergen antibody) but does not suppress IGG protein necessary for regular immunity such as Rabies vaccine etc. etc.
In our case to be on the safe side we give all vaccinations during off season when meds are not needed. As far as the gastro issues we have had little problem. If anything the down side to the drug is the cost.
Again consulting with a veterinary dermatology will really help you in selection of a combination of options that may be more appropriate to your own situation to keep the flairs in check.
The reality is you can't keep the dog in a bubble and as hard as you might, you can clean all day long for a sterilized environment (tearing out your carpets, elimination of turf in your yard, putting socks on the dog etc etc) it probably will change very little if anything when it comes to inhalation allergies. The great wide world will still intrude.
Thanks for all the input, its a lot to process in the short time we've been figuring out Tsuki's issue! This morning marks the official day three, twice a day, dosage of Temeril-P. It's like I'm living with my old Tsuki again - no itching or carpet rubbing! This stuff really works, but I do not want to use anything like it long term. At least we've determined a short term solution, now to find the cause and long term solution!
Her eyes aren't as bright red, her right eye isn't running early as bad, her snout area is still a bit red but she's not itching or rubbing the carpet at all in the last 2 full days. Temeril-P has given her relief!!!!! But now what?
Glad that you have a solution, however temporary. From the pictures, Tsuki looks like she feels much better. Hopefully a permanent solution will come about soon!
Try the Dermatologist, they may suggest allergy testing with the possibility of allergy shots, or maybe this wouldn't be needed which would be great. The doc can point you in the right direction and give you a schedule/plan. So glad she is more comfortable.
Tsuki is on day 5 of her Temeril-P run (anti-histamine/prednisone med). She's to take this until Friday. This Thursday we have a follow up with our vet and a consultation with a vet dermatologist. Should be interesting!
So Tsuki is approaching two weeks on temeril-p (Weds)
We started with two tabs daily for 3 days, then 1 tab daily for 3 days, then 1/2 tab for 3 days, then 1/2 tab every other day... however, right about at the day and a half mark she starts itching and rubbing her face on everything again.
So, I'm continuing the 1/2 tab once daily until we can get a better idea of how to deal.
I've been researching Atopica like a fiend, and I'm hearing that it works on MOST dogs, with either a GI side effect, or possible kidney issues if kidney issues already exist.
I'm also researching the effect of enzyme deficiencies or adrenal disorders and how they contribute to allergic reactions to inhalants. To me, the focus is not what is causing the issue and removing it, its what is happening that Tsuki can't fight it off with her own immunity.
From this weekend: she still has the redness around her eyes and snout
BUT on the Temeril-P, she's not scratching and rubbing the carpet, so the irritation doesn't look nearly as bad. When she irritates it, it makes it look so much worse (I think)
Jen, I know a couple posts you were looking into the possibility of an e-collar..
Perhaps it might really help to not exacerbate the problem, when she isn't able to scratch it?
It's hard when you don't know exactly what's wrong :( I hope she'll be off the steroids soon especially at the dosages she's been having to take them at.
We haven't yet put an e-collar on only because the temeril=p was relieving the symptoms. I think we need to get one until we can get more thorough testing done for her.
You can have her immune globulin levels checked and see if those need to be boosted. Beebe has an IgA deficiency which is basically the underlying reason her body can't protect itself from allergens. Although I can blame poor breeding on her allergies, the true cause was a poor immune system. She takes IgA interferon replacement drops sublingually every day until she turns 3 years old. It's a piece of cake. The derm doc can check the blood levels.
That may not be the case with Tsuki, her immune system may be too geared up and is attacking itself, so cyclosporine may be the way. Maybe there is a holistic alternative that can work to reduce inflamation or be a suppressant or something? I know people have used bee venom with good results on autoimmune disorders and acupuncture as well. My aunt gave desicated bovine adrenal gland to her Tibetan Terrier Loki as he was experiencing severe inhalent and contact allergies from salt water. They live on Long Beach and walk on the beach every day so removing him from the environment and sterilizing everything wasn't really practical. He has really improved apparently and doesn't get hotspots anymore or weepy eyes. Maybe something more natural that can get her body to tone down it's responses to simple allergens? The shots really aren't that bad. Beebe is only taking 1/2 a benadryl on shot days at this point.
Thank you! Thats exactly the information I was hoping to arm myself with when I head into the derm doc's early next week. I've been hitting all the info I can find hard, from de Bairacli Levy's Herbal Handbook to Plechner's Allergy Epidemic/Remedy to Dr. Pitcairn's plethora of info..
Its hard though to find allergy information not specific to food, and that isn't specific to just relieving symptoms - I want answers to why, not how. I imagine when the primary issue is resolved, all the secondary symptoms will be easier to manage/treat.
It's mold spores and mildew. I'll have more to type tonight after we go see the vet again, and confirm what it is. After having a super long (and $free$!) conversation with the derm vet, he said he had to cover for the other vet the past week and a half and 9 of every 10 dogs he saw came in with skin irritation issues. 1 of that 9 was food related. 8 of 9 inhalant allergy. He said the the rainforest type weather this summer is causing a thick, hazy overgrowth of mold and mildew spores.
My mom is a human nurse, she even said that people with low level asthma need their inhalers for the first time in years this summer...
Young, healthy dogs are now coming in with these same allergies/symptoms. Tsuki is just a young healthy dog with a strong immune system that is in overdrive. He said its a backward compliment that she's affected - since her immunity is strong.
She's still suffering the Temeril-P only works for 24 hrs so we can't taper her off steroids yet, unfortunately. We don't know FOR SURE that its mold/mildew, only assume since she had zero issues last summer and all of a sudden a healthy dog is tearing her face apart...
So, tonight we test the theory and come up with a plan, and hope the weather cooperates to help Tsuki overcome this allergic reaction!
The mold/mildew issue has been affecting me for quite some time now. This summer has absolutely been the pits with the damp warm weather creating a breeding ground for mold (to which I am terribly allergic). Luckily, neither Bella or Nola has really been affected by it.
I just hope this means we will have a fairly dry fall and I can start enjoying being outside instead of coming in sniffling and itching. I think I might need an e-collar. :-P
Keep us up to date with how Tsuki is doing. And I hope she gets some permanent relief soon. I know how she feels.
We actually have a HEPA air filter downstairs AND upstairs AND in the vacuum (which we keep clean for this reason)... we have a dehumidifier that runs in the basement at night and in the kitchen during the day...
Went to the dermatologist again last night and haven't heard a shiba scream like that in forever! Apparently he had NEVER heard it, and that made it amusing.
Tsuki is allergic to the 3 types of common house mold he tested for, and one common type of mildew. More than likely, she's allergic to a whole array of molds/mildews in outside and in - but at least we have a confirmation on some of it. At least the monster has a name.
It would be senseless for him to create a vaccine, since it won't be all encompassing. He feels its too soon to consider something like Atopica (thank goodness!) and that we continue her low dose of Temeril-P until the weather changes to dry, or at least colder.
She is starting to gain a bit of weight, starting to look pudgy puppy again, because she eats and drinks more on the steroid, and doesn't have as much energy as she usually does. Is this a lasting side effect until she's off the steroid?
Yay for knowing. It wouldn't be a huge surprise for her to react to mold this summer. Look at all the rain the east coast got this summer. It is moldy and mildewy and muggy.
Hopefully we will get a dry spell soon and that will help.
Don't know much about steroids. I have had the good fortune of being able to avoid them.
Comments
I sort of assumed you could smell mold when you have a problem in the house? We do use air purifying fans, but we'll have to be more investigative and find the problem if thats what it is.
I'm also researching Atopica.. but I hate to give her anything that could cause both lowered immunity and gastro issues. Her comfort is more important, I guess.
"Inhalant Allergies
Inhalant allergy, or atopy, is the most common kind of allergy seen in pets. The condition is similar to hay fever in people, but the symptoms are manifested in the skin rather than the respiratory system. Dogs may be allergic to tree pollen, grass pollen, weed pollen, mold spores, and house dust mites. Allergies to plant pollens are usually seasonal. Mold and house dust can create problems anytime of the year.
Symptoms: Usually the same for any of the inhalant allergens. Dogs will typically scratch, shake their head, rub their ears or muzzle, or lick their feet.
Treatment: There are several methods to treat inhalant allergies. The most common method is to give anti-inflammatories. Corticosteroids and antihistamines, if used carefully, can be a safe, effective way to treat allergies. Your veterinarian can best determine what combination and dosage should be used. Medicated Shampoos may also be used to treat allergies. Hypoallergenic shampoo is soothing and can provide temporary relief to inflamed skin.
Allergy testing is also available to determine what the pet is allergic to. Samples of possible allergy causing substances are injected under the animals skin. After a short time the area is checked for an allergic response. There is another type of allergy testing in which a blood sample is taken and submitted to a laboratory that tests for different plant and food items that may be causing your pet to itch. Once it is determined exactly what is causing the allergic reaction, the lab can develop a vaccine to desensitize your pet to those substances. Allergy testing and desensitization are a developing science and show some promise for managing allergies without depending on steroids."
If you have a basement and they play there maybe it's present there as well? Worth a look..
And just in case it is mold, I kinda feel like a hippy for saying this, you could burn tea tree oil to kill stuff in the air, until you find mold or rule it out. Is mold in the carpet possible? I hope Tsuki feels better soon.
Tell me more about burning tea tree oil!!
Depending on how bad the problem is (as in black mold in the walls, ceiling, etc.), you may have to have a professional come and test the house and remove the mold. (If you rent, your landlord is responsible for this, at least in VA.)
My biggest issue is the mold outside and in the building I work in. (Yay for government jobs!) A lot of allergy medicine does not work for me (and some I am even allergic to because of its ingredients), so I usually have to suffer through it.
Hopefully the steroids will help Tsuki out. And while it may not have any allergy reducing effects, Desitin (sp?), the diaper rash ointment is good at soothing the itch and helping heal the skin. Plus, it is non-toxic so if she happens to lick it off or get it in her eyes, it should not bother her.
For cortisone shots you cant give that too much. For oral cortisone medication, the rule of thumb is if the dog must be on it for more than four month out of a year you should look into other alternatives. I would definitely consult with a veterinary dermatologist.
Also for dogs on oral meds and prednisone etc. there can be behavior changes. Some animals can not tolerate the meds, so keep that in mind. If you notice jitters, twitching, excessive panting, water intake and irritability in the pup seek an alternative with the vet.
Snf
I don't believe the serum analysis for allergies is as reliable as the intradermal testing is. Dust mites are always present and for most of us not living in arid areas, molds and pollens are present most of the time no matter what so desensitizing towards them vs sterilizing the environment makes more sense to me, because what happens then if the dog basically lives in a ultra clean bubble and then goes somewhere new? Super allergy flare up. The allergy shots have really helped my one dog.
The immunity suppression thing sounds scary I know. However, the veterinary dermatologist indicated that Atopic suppresses the IGE antibody protein (allergen antibody) but does not suppress IGG protein necessary for regular immunity such as Rabies vaccine etc. etc.
In our case to be on the safe side we give all vaccinations during off season when meds are not needed. As far as the gastro issues we have had little problem. If anything the down side to the drug is the cost.
Again consulting with a veterinary dermatology will really help you in selection of a combination of options that may be more appropriate to your own situation to keep the flairs in check.
The reality is you can't keep the dog in a bubble and as hard as you might, you can clean all day long for a sterilized environment (tearing out your carpets, elimination of turf in your yard, putting socks on the dog etc etc) it probably will change very little if anything when it comes to inhalation allergies. The great wide world will still intrude.
Snf
Her eyes aren't as bright red, her right eye isn't running early as bad, her snout area is still a bit red but she's not itching or rubbing the carpet at all in the last 2 full days. Temeril-P has given her relief!!!!! But now what?
Just wondering how this was all going...how long does Tsuki have to be on steroids?
We started with two tabs daily for 3 days, then 1 tab daily for 3 days, then 1/2 tab for 3 days, then 1/2 tab every other day... however, right about at the day and a half mark she starts itching and rubbing her face on everything again.
So, I'm continuing the 1/2 tab once daily until we can get a better idea of how to deal.
I've been researching Atopica like a fiend, and I'm hearing that it works on MOST dogs, with either a GI side effect, or possible kidney issues if kidney issues already exist.
I'm also researching the effect of enzyme deficiencies or adrenal disorders and how they contribute to allergic reactions to inhalants. To me, the focus is not what is causing the issue and removing it, its what is happening that Tsuki can't fight it off with her own immunity.
Anyone have any leads?!?
she still has the redness around her eyes
and snout
BUT on the Temeril-P, she's not scratching and rubbing the carpet, so the irritation doesn't look nearly as bad. When she irritates it, it makes it look so much worse (I think)
Perhaps it might really help to not exacerbate the problem, when she isn't able to scratch it?
It's hard when you don't know exactly what's wrong :( I hope she'll be off the steroids soon especially at the dosages she's been having to take them at.
I hope she feels better.
That may not be the case with Tsuki, her immune system may be too geared up and is attacking itself, so cyclosporine may be the way. Maybe there is a holistic alternative that can work to reduce inflamation or be a suppressant or something? I know people have used bee venom with good results on autoimmune disorders and acupuncture as well. My aunt gave desicated bovine adrenal gland to her Tibetan Terrier Loki as he was experiencing severe inhalent and contact allergies from salt water. They live on Long Beach and walk on the beach every day so removing him from the environment and sterilizing everything wasn't really practical. He has really improved apparently and doesn't get hotspots anymore or weepy eyes. Maybe something more natural that can get her body to tone down it's responses to simple allergens? The shots really aren't that bad. Beebe is only taking 1/2 a benadryl on shot days at this point.
Thank you! Thats exactly the information I was hoping to arm myself with when I head into the derm doc's early next week. I've been hitting all the info I can find hard, from de Bairacli Levy's Herbal Handbook to Plechner's Allergy Epidemic/Remedy to Dr. Pitcairn's plethora of info..
Its hard though to find allergy information not specific to food, and that isn't specific to just relieving symptoms - I want answers to why, not how. I imagine when the primary issue is resolved, all the secondary symptoms will be easier to manage/treat.
Thanks again - you are awesome, Lindsay!
He said the the rainforest type weather this summer is causing a thick, hazy overgrowth of mold and mildew spores.
My mom is a human nurse, she even said that people with low level asthma need their inhalers for the first time in years this summer...
Young, healthy dogs are now coming in with these same allergies/symptoms. Tsuki is just a young healthy dog with a strong immune system that is in overdrive. He said its a backward compliment that she's affected - since her immunity is strong.
She's still suffering the Temeril-P only works for 24 hrs so we can't taper her off steroids yet, unfortunately.
We don't know FOR SURE that its mold/mildew, only assume since she had zero issues last summer and all of a sudden a healthy dog is tearing her face apart...
So, tonight we test the theory and come up with a plan, and hope the weather cooperates to help Tsuki overcome this allergic reaction!
The mold/mildew issue has been affecting me for quite some time now. This summer has absolutely been the pits with the damp warm weather creating a breeding ground for mold (to which I am terribly allergic). Luckily, neither Bella or Nola has really been affected by it.
I just hope this means we will have a fairly dry fall and I can start enjoying being outside instead of coming in sniffling and itching. I think I might need an e-collar. :-P
Keep us up to date with how Tsuki is doing. And I hope she gets some permanent relief soon. I know how she feels.
And still! She has issues!
Tsuki is allergic to the 3 types of common house mold he tested for, and one common type of mildew. More than likely, she's allergic to a whole array of molds/mildews in outside and in - but at least we have a confirmation on some of it. At least the monster has a name.
It would be senseless for him to create a vaccine, since it won't be all encompassing. He feels its too soon to consider something like Atopica (thank goodness!) and that we continue her low dose of Temeril-P until the weather changes to dry, or at least colder.
She is starting to gain a bit of weight, starting to look pudgy puppy again, because she eats and drinks more on the steroid, and doesn't have as much energy as she usually does. Is this a lasting side effect until she's off the steroid?
Hopefully we will get a dry spell soon and that will help.
Don't know much about steroids. I have had the good fortune of being able to avoid them.