@brada1878 Off topic... I always thought Akita were big, but seeing them next to the Ovcharka really puts the CO's size into perspective! They are damn huge.
@brada1878 - Gracie would arch her back like a cat and turn away with teeth showing when she was uncomfortable. It was strange to see, and I don't know if enough dogs understood that body posture. Have you see this type of body language in your dogs?
Excellent post. I hear so many stories about Akita killing Shiba, but that really could be the case for ANY larger dog left unattended with a smaller dog.
My unconfident pet Shiba does that when one of the others stares at her. This behavior helps diffuse any quarrels from starting and seems to appease the dog giving the hairy eyeball, but it makes me feel bad for her knowing that she tends to be the low man, and sometimes this behavior actually causes another dog to try and bully her (which I don't allow).
I have seen my Kai do something like this too when he was younger and not as confident, but not any longer. Now he has the Shibas figured out and will tease them for amusement and then be able to dodge away.
@ayk Conker kinda does that, but it's different at the same time. Arched back, tail uncurled, hackles flared, teeth visible, but he does not turn away if the other dog is close. He runs away but will face the other dog(s) if they follow. It usually is accompanied by a snarl or a loud high-pitched yip and a snap in the other dog's direction and lots of lip licking. He does it when he's confronted by a dog he does NOT want in his space regardless of how the other dog is acting. I really try to avoid putting him in situations where he'll do this, he is obviously very uncomfortable and stressed, but it seems to happen frequently despite me saying "NO, my dog does NOT want to meet yours."
@ayk - I have seen that behavior in a few dogs, and I've also seen those behaviors individually in most dogs. Sounds like a quirky appeasement technique Gracie has. )
You know how I hate to link dogs to wolves, but wolves do that front-teeth smile thing to their family members to show acceptance. Ike does this too - he does it to me. It's funny... Anyway, Gracie could be presenting a version of that behavioral pattern. That's just speculation tho...
The more Akitas I have and the more experience I get under my belt, the less I ever want to leave ANY of my dogs alone together or loose in the house or yard while I am away. I am very happy for my crates and kennels. Its mostly an issue with the girls (Ghidora has never fought with any of the girls, but the girls have each had conflict with one another at least once) but even so, I keep Ghidora completely separate while away too. Better to be safe than sorry.
Yeah, we tend to not leave the Akita loose with the other dogs unless he is supervised, because he is too much of a resource guarder, and just last week a scuffle over a toy got someone hurt. Even though they tend to just sleep when we're not here, I just can't trust it.
I am no Akita expert, but in the second video you are calling the dog so much, it's making the dog nervous. The dog has a muzzle, he can't do anything or hurt another dog. Just my 2 cents.. He has to get used to the muzzle and the new situation. But hey, I own another breed.
@kimputai, I know, and I usually try not to call him in the park, but I have thought that once I call him I have to commit to making him come to me, so I had decided that if I call him he must come, unfortunately I have not found a good way beside continuing to call for him, to make that happen.(They don't allow treats or leashes in the park and for good reason) I had herd not to chase him cuz that will make things worse. Not sure if it is the best way. But once I say "come" I don't let up till he touches my hand. I can see your point though I could have be making him nervous. I do not know if in this situation, (with the muzzle on) if I should be allowing him to do things, I normally would stop him from doing. See sometimes with out the muzzle Ares will nip the tummy. More opinions about the muzzle plz. I had been advised not to use the muzzle cuz I didn't know if he was trying to bite. Then came his last day in the park video. I suppose it is hard to work with him on this if I avoid to situation. But a very least before I ever try again at the park. I need to stay away long enough so he don't think it is his back yard. I have thoughts of going back and trying it again. But for the reasons posted above I am thinking it best to stay away. In a way I feel like I failed and I am not a quitter so I is hard to stay away. But as posted above even the best trainers fall into the trap. What do you all think of the muzzle?
Why not invest in a good doggie class, so you learn how to properly communicate with your 2 dogs?
Strongly advise you to choose someone that heavily leans on positive reinforcement methods and strategically use negative punishment to train. Stay away from anyone that advocates positive punishment.
@T_Dog - problem with constantly calling him is that you are actually teaching him to ignore you or that listening is optional. A command word should only be said once (maybe twice), if you have to say it more than you have to take a step back and practice training some more. Do not let him the opportunity to practice behaviors you don't want happening, and this includes ignoring or delayed reaction to a command. Go back to practicing on leash with treats, starting at home and then building to a place where you can practice on leash. With practice and praise, he will learn that listening right away is full of rewards.
@T-dog Never needed a muzzle. Besides, I wouldn't call it a fight what your dog did. |He corrected the other dog, if he was really so agressive, he would chase the dog and you could call your Akita all you want. My dogs react on the tone of my voice. Most of the time, the second time I raise my voice they know fooling around is over. Maybe go back to basic is an option?
@kimputai, ya I had looked at it that way also, he seems to correct dogs for things and I can't get him to stop. Cuz he is not supposed to feel he has to do it. I know that if I would just do it he wouldn't have to. But in this video, I should have been more on top of it and separated right when Ares stood up. So many times he has done that very thing all the same, but did not attack. He decided he didn't like that dog, and inside of two seconds WAM! BASH! BOW! His lip raised and barely showed a tooth, I said Areeees, and he launched! My tone was his warning, and many times he has walked away just from my tone of voice. When saying his name.
@Calia and @sandrat888, you are right, about that. I need to go to another class, I am not seeing this stuff(the mistakes and things I over look from the class I took with Tachi.) I need to take another one. They told me I need the next class up, when I asked to take the first class with Ares. Said I already was taught the beginner stuff. But I don't work with Ares like I did with Tachi, that class motivates you so your do does good in the next class. I should just insist on taking the first class again. I should know this stuff. But that is why I posted the videos, for an outside perspective. It is surprising how much stuff I am doing that I had learned not to do in class. I don't even notice. I should have stopped calling him and calmly walked up and taken his leash. I had many times taken him home and slapped the long line on, that is how I have the recall I have in the recall videos. Thanks for pointing that out.
T-Dog after you start your next session ask your instructor if you can go back to a few of the lower classes for a refresher. They should be able to see where you are and get you back to the straight and narrow. If you are uncomfortable at the new level taking a step back is not a bad thing.
I also suggest against trying to be too perfect. I think you will stress yourself out if you want to be over perfect. Training is a give and take and too much pressure and your Akita may be randomizing its response to you. Relax and go back to training with a trainer that can help fill in any gaps as you move forward. Recalls can be one of the most difficult things working with many breeds of dogs. So don't beat yourself up.
I finally got to see the video @brada1878 posted my phone can not see embedded video it can only follow links:( now I know what all the comments were about. lol
Comments
On topic... Nice post Brad. I agree completely.
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Excellent post. I hear so many stories about Akita killing Shiba, but that really could be the case for ANY larger dog left unattended with a smaller dog.
@Ayk
My unconfident pet Shiba does that when one of the others stares at her. This behavior helps diffuse any quarrels from starting and seems to appease the dog giving the hairy eyeball, but it makes me feel bad for her knowing that she tends to be the low man, and sometimes this behavior actually causes another dog to try and bully her (which I don't allow).
I have seen my Kai do something like this too when he was younger and not as confident, but not any longer. Now he has the Shibas figured out and will tease them for amusement and then be able to dodge away.
He does it when he's confronted by a dog he does NOT want in his space regardless of how the other dog is acting. I really try to avoid putting him in situations where he'll do this, he is obviously very uncomfortable and stressed, but it seems to happen frequently despite me saying "NO, my dog does NOT want to meet yours."
You know how I hate to link dogs to wolves, but wolves do that front-teeth smile thing to their family members to show acceptance. Ike does this too - he does it to me. It's funny... Anyway, Gracie could be presenting a version of that behavioral pattern. That's just speculation tho...
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Strongly advise you to choose someone that heavily leans on positive reinforcement methods and strategically use negative punishment to train. Stay away from anyone that advocates positive punishment.
A good place to start looking for a good positive/reward-based trainer is here, http://www.trulydogfriendly.com/blog/?page_id=4
@Calia and @sandrat888, you are right, about that. I need to go to another class, I am not seeing this stuff(the mistakes and things I over look from the class I took with Tachi.) I need to take another one. They told me I need the next class up, when I asked to take the first class with Ares. Said I already was taught the beginner stuff. But I don't work with Ares like I did with Tachi, that class motivates you so your do does good in the next class. I should just insist on taking the first class again. I should know this stuff. But that is why I posted the videos, for an outside perspective. It is surprising how much stuff I am doing that I had learned not to do in class. I don't even notice. I should have stopped calling him and calmly walked up and taken his leash. I had many times taken him home and slapped the long line on, that is how I have the recall I have in the recall videos. Thanks for pointing that out.
I also suggest against trying to be too perfect. I think you will stress yourself out if you want to be over perfect. Training is a give and take and too much pressure and your Akita may be randomizing its response to you. Relax and go back to training with a trainer that can help fill in any gaps as you move forward. Recalls can be one of the most difficult things working with many breeds of dogs. So don't beat yourself up.
Good luck
Snf