Pam: I agree with everyone else. I don't think you should stop socializing Ryu. It's pretty daunting getting greeted by 6 dogs 5 times his size!
Romi: I also agree with Brad. His behavior was escalated beyond 'I'm uncomfortable'. But I know how you feel. I'm sorry that I kept Mika away from other dogs. Knowing better now, I see that her behavior was dominant, but not aggressive and she's now in a position where she doesn't know how to approach dogs due to lack of socialization. When she does see a dog, she's frustrated dominant. Doesn't go over well. But I kept her away when she started herding dogs and fighting with dogs who mounted her. My bad.
I'm a bit late on this but do not take him back to that doggy daycare. They alpha rolled a poor little boston terrier by pushing their fingers into his neck? YIKES! I would of picked up my dog and ran at that point.
Also Ryu growling at a crowd of dogs is normal as other people have said. He was saying back off. Growling gets a bad rap, so many people think growling = aggression. Growling is a warning, a verbal communication that the dog is unhappy. If he had immediatley tried to attack them, that would not have been normal. I have seen many dogs that need a few minutes to settle into the dog park. They just want to sniff, pee, maybe poop, and then after a few minutes t hey are ready to play.
Wow - I go home after work and come back and there's like 20 threads to go through! :-)
Anyway, I called the other daycare on island and they won't even see us until 10 days after Ryu's neuter. So, that puts us around May 10th but I'm still going to keep our appointment (note: this was all supposed to come about because I work so much and wanted him to be socialized while I was gone... If he gets approved for daycare on the 10th, guess what's happening 1 month after that? I'll be unemployed! Just my luck, I tell ya). Anyway, I asked about their correction methods and they dont use any touch techniques, they simply separate the dogs having an issue and redirect to another area. At the most, they'll use a water squirt bottle to get their attention. So, we'll see.
But other GREAT news! On our walk last evening, we ran into a 6 yr old Lab/Sheltie mix who was the exact same size as Ryu. To my surpise and JOY, the owner was very open to letting them play and dropped the leash to the lab mix (we were in a field far away from the road). She and Ryu played for about 10 minutes; like full-on, jumping, chest-butting, barking, running around play. There was so much slobber; Ryu's face was covered. I was so HAPPPPPY that he played so well (and that another owner was willing to let my dog jump all over his)
It was fun.
By the way, THANKS SO MUCH for all the advice about the daycare thing - I'm really happy that we cancelled our reservation with the first one - it just wasn't worth losing the headway we've gained with Ryu
I've heard that our dogs will act differently in a daycare facility than they do with us around. Jake probably needs a day or two in one, a good one, for his social skill development. He's too possessive 'mine' 'mine' 'mine', my mom, my water, my ball (even if you had it first), my space. Either that or he'll just have to hang around other Shibas who know proper doggie etiquette
No worries Dave :-) I've been wanting to quit my job for 2 years but I kept getting promoted so I stuck it out. We're moving in August so I'm going to quit on Jun 11 (to have some time to pack, set up transportation, etc.). But I'm thinking about pushing it forward to May 28 because I'm getting so anxious! It's terrible but I'm like a "slacker-over achiever" haha
The "slacker over achiever"? If I read that right, you are getting rewarded for doing nothing? That's frickin sweet. Why would you leave that gig? ;-)
You're on Oahu? Because when I was there it took me an hour and half to do the round trip from Honolulu to the North Shore. You must be driving with aloha. :-P
haha Dave, that's EXACTLY what I mean. :-) I work for the government so you can imagine how your tax dollars are being spent. I could do my job in about 15 hours a week but instead they insist that I'm here for 40. Basically, I work in Human Resources, and I staff 16 Army childcare centers on this island. I have about 450 employees at those centers and need to hire about 80 more to be fully staffed (however, this number always hovers around 80 because of our turnover). I keep trying to get them to let me work from home but no such luck ANYWAY, (sorry for my life story there), it's an easy job, the pay is nice but I just can't see myself doing this for the next 40 years....My dream is to start an adventure tours company out in the mountains (and Ryu can come hiking with us!) but that dream seems to be getting away from me. That's the thing about working for the government - the perks are nice so you get stuck doing what you hate because the money is good :-(
Also, the trip around the island... we haven't done it in about 2 years but we started at the North Shore and drove down the east side of the island to Honolulu, up and around the west side back to the North Shore. There's only so much ocean you can see before you get bored
Reading back thru this entire thread, as I should have done from the start, WOW, do I see Jake as a duplicate of Ryu. I took Jake to obedience class at 5 months and got my first taste of his 'get out of my face' attitude growl. When I mentioned it to the trainers they explained there was a difference between aggression and what Jake was exhibiting. I always mention Shiba etiquette, and Brad confirms my words with his as 'Shibas Rules of Engagement'. Neither Jake nor Ryu is aggressive but assertive against intolerable behavior. Obnoxious dogs and the Shiba do not get along. Unfortunately, there seems to always be ONE of those out in the park. He's never been the aggressor.
The only little spiff Jake has had with another Shiba was when Jake started playing with the males younger sister and the male took offense. It was a little comical because although the older male was clearly PO'd, Jake ran in Shiba style and then returned to taunt the male. I was glad the other Shiba owner understood and kept the older male calm and at bay.
I think I'm gonna have to accept and understand that Jake will not always get along with every dog and be prepared to step in when needed, but I also feel that socialization with other dogs is a must for his continued growth. As Jake matures (8.5 months) it becomes more clear that he thinks he's bigger than he is and is not afraid to assertively discipline a larger dog that gets in his face. I must remain aware that the other dog may prefer a scuffle. And, like you Pam, I hold my breath every time.
As an after thought after watching the 'so cute' video with the 2 Akita Inus. It just made me think, have you ever seen an Akita at a dog park? Nope. I have no doubt a fight would be instigated by another breed and then the Akita would finish it....
LOL!!! If Jessica is right....Brad...I think you're a bit too stressed from work. Go take a nice hot bubble bath with scented candles, clear your head and get back on here! Or maybe you had mistaken MO for Montana instead of Missouri? I've done that a couple of times...hehe.
lol... yea, I'm an idiot. When I saw "MO" I thought Montana, later at dinner I realized I was a tard and MO is not Montana... Sorry. I am having an embarrassing forum week.
I think Pam might be the first person to ever be excited about moving to MO (Missouri for those who are wondering).
I don't even want to list all of the spats, dust ups, and small brawls Nemo has been in at the park. Some his fault, some not. That's why we go to the dog park at 8:30 at night in the dark.
Brandon: Are you in MO?!? At first, I was really dreading FLW (Fort Lost in the Woods) but I'm ready for a change. That's where Tim and I got engaged so it holds a special (albeit cold and miserable) place in my heart :-)
Brad: Don't worry - I'm horrible when it comes to geography. Without looking at a map I can't tell you where any of the mid-western states are located
That line is hilarious! That's one of my favorite movies. I completely agree, its a rare combination of wit and comedy that really hits home with me. If I had contributed to the movie thread, it totally would have been on my list.
Whew. Seriously late on this thread. It was just so long and I've such a crazed week. But, I wanted to wish Pam well on her move to Missouri! Also, maybe plant a little bug in your head. My ex's friend got fired from his job (failed a drug test....He was a COP. LMAO) and started a company called Wanna Go Out.
It's kind of an adventure company...for dogs. He takes dogs in packs hiking, swimming, running, playing while their owner is at work. Since you love dogs, I thought it might be something you could do and enjoy in MO. PS. He started this YEARS before Cesar was known as a dog walking company and it's just grown over the years.
Another late comer to this thread. I would never leave my dogs at a daycare that just let the dogs all play together. There are just too many variables with each dog's personality and reaction to situations. Also, so much interaction with strange dogs is tiring for the dogs. We had our fur guys in daycare at Club Pet at the Helen Woodward Animal Center. Each dog had an 8 X 10 foot stucco enclosure with metal bar doors inside and the whole building had sky lights, they were taken for walks and were also taken out to 10 X 50 foot outside enclosures. You could get additional playtime with a human if desired. They loved going were always eager to run in the doors every morning. Pam: Good luck with your move. I hope you like it in MO!!
Thanks Barbara! Your friend's company sounds AWESOME! That would be an absolute dream for us. We're hoping to start out with an adventure company and then branch out to owning a summer camp for kids. A camp where they can learn about being self-sufficient, independent, etc. I'm going to have to look up that website when I get home though, the government computer is blocking it :-(
Thanks for the well wishes as well Patty! We're going to be super stressed when we have to put Ryu on a plane so cross your fingers for us! :-) I can't wait to get back to the mainland - i feel like we're in another world over here haha
I have to joke about the "another world" - I handle a fair amount of grass seed orders for our military here and abroad. The last time that I had to ship to AK & HI, I had to provide import permits for CA to ship the seed. I called and asked when did those states secede from the Union and I was told that both of those states were outside the country.
Comments
Pam: I agree with everyone else. I don't think you should stop socializing Ryu. It's pretty daunting getting greeted by 6 dogs 5 times his size!
Romi: I also agree with Brad. His behavior was escalated beyond 'I'm uncomfortable'. But I know how you feel. I'm sorry that I kept Mika away from other dogs. Knowing better now, I see that her behavior was dominant, but not aggressive and she's now in a position where she doesn't know how to approach dogs due to lack of socialization. When she does see a dog, she's frustrated dominant. Doesn't go over well. But I kept her away when she started herding dogs and fighting with dogs who mounted her. My bad.
I'm a bit late on this but do not take him back to that doggy daycare. They alpha rolled a poor little boston terrier by pushing their fingers into his neck? YIKES! I would of picked up my dog and ran at that point.
Also Ryu growling at a crowd of dogs is normal as other people have said. He was saying back off. Growling gets a bad rap, so many people think growling = aggression. Growling is a warning, a verbal communication that the dog is unhappy. If he had immediatley tried to attack them, that would not have been normal. I have seen many dogs that need a few minutes to settle into the dog park. They just want to sniff, pee, maybe poop, and then after a few minutes t hey are ready to play.
Wow - I go home after work and come back and there's like 20 threads to go through! :-)
Anyway, I called the other daycare on island and they won't even see us until 10 days after Ryu's neuter. So, that puts us around May 10th but I'm still going to keep our appointment (note: this was all supposed to come about because I work so much and wanted him to be socialized while I was gone... If he gets approved for daycare on the 10th, guess what's happening 1 month after that? I'll be unemployed! Just my luck, I tell ya). Anyway, I asked about their correction methods and they dont use any touch techniques, they simply separate the dogs having an issue and redirect to another area. At the most, they'll use a water squirt bottle to get their attention. So, we'll see.
But other GREAT news! On our walk last evening, we ran into a 6 yr old Lab/Sheltie mix who was the exact same size as Ryu. To my surpise and JOY, the owner was very open to letting them play and dropped the leash to the lab mix (we were in a field far away from the road). She and Ryu played for about 10 minutes; like full-on, jumping, chest-butting, barking, running around play. There was so much slobber; Ryu's face was covered. I was so HAPPPPPY that he played so well
It was fun.
By the way, THANKS SO MUCH for all the advice about the daycare thing - I'm really happy that we cancelled our reservation with the first one - it just wasn't worth losing the headway we've gained with Ryu
We're moving to Fort Leonard Wood, MO. I'm getting really excited for the following things:
1. A fenced-in yard (YEAH!!!!)
2. Road trips (that last longer than 3 hours - that's about how long it takes to drive around this entire island)
3. SNOW
4. Adopting another Shiba (I'll save this for another thread hehe)
5. Target!!!
:-) Just a tad excited...I'm going to miss this place but I'm ready to get back to the mainland too
You're on Oahu? Because when I was there it took me an hour and half to do the round trip from Honolulu to the North Shore. You must be driving with aloha. :-P
haha Dave, that's EXACTLY what I mean. :-) I work for the government so you can imagine how your tax dollars are being spent. I could do my job in about 15 hours a week but instead they insist that I'm here for 40. Basically, I work in Human Resources, and I staff 16 Army childcare centers on this island. I have about 450 employees at those centers and need to hire about 80 more to be fully staffed (however, this number always hovers around 80 because of our turnover). I keep trying to get them to let me work from home but no such luck
Also, the trip around the island... we haven't done it in about 2 years but we started at the North Shore and drove down the east side of the island to Honolulu, up and around the west side back to the North Shore. There's only so much ocean you can see before you get bored
Reading back thru this entire thread, as I should have done from the start, WOW, do I see Jake as a duplicate of Ryu. I took Jake to obedience class at 5 months and got my first taste of his 'get out of my face' attitude growl. When I mentioned it to the trainers they explained there was a difference between aggression and what Jake was exhibiting. I always mention Shiba etiquette, and Brad confirms my words with his as 'Shibas Rules of Engagement'. Neither Jake nor Ryu is aggressive but assertive against intolerable behavior. Obnoxious dogs and the Shiba do not get along. Unfortunately, there seems to always be ONE of those out in the park. He's never been the aggressor.
The only little spiff Jake has had with another Shiba was when Jake started playing with the males younger sister and the male took offense. It was a little comical because although the older male was clearly PO'd, Jake ran in Shiba style and then returned to taunt the male. I was glad the other Shiba owner understood and kept the older male calm and at bay.
I think I'm gonna have to accept and understand that Jake will not always get along with every dog and be prepared to step in when needed, but I also feel that socialization with other dogs is a must for his continued growth. As Jake matures (8.5 months) it becomes more clear that he thinks he's bigger than he is and is not afraid to assertively discipline a larger dog that gets in his face. I must remain aware that the other dog may prefer a scuffle. And, like you Pam, I hold my breath every time.
lol... The only fight Hilo was ever in at a dog park was with a Whippet! The Whippet attacked Hilo! lol!!
Up to that point I didn't think Whippets had it in them.
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Pam - MO huh? That's a big change! You will be close to Heidi! (kinda)
lol... yea, I'm an idiot. When I saw "MO" I thought Montana, later at dinner I realized I was a tard and MO is not Montana... Sorry. I am having an embarrassing forum week.
I think Pam might be the first person to ever be excited about moving to MO (Missouri for those who are wondering).
I don't even want to list all of the spats, dust ups, and small brawls Nemo has been in at the park. Some his fault, some not. That's why we go to the dog park at 8:30 at night in the dark.
Brandon: Are you in MO?!? At first, I was really dreading FLW (Fort Lost in the Woods) but I'm ready for a change. That's where Tim and I got engaged so it holds a special (albeit cold and miserable) place in my heart :-)
Brad: Don't worry - I'm horrible when it comes to geography. Without looking at a map I can't tell you where any of the mid-western states are located
Ok, I had to get out my map - I thought MO was more north...
When I was looking up rescues in the mid-west, I saw some in WI... you never know! maybe we'll end up there picking up our next Shiba! :-P
The sad thing is I am pretty good with Geography! I am just programming so much right now my brain is mush.
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Dave - I LOVE that movie! So freaking funny... and clever. "You like food and chicks too? Your blowing my mind!" <- LOL!
Whew. Seriously late on this thread. It was just so long and I've such a crazed week. But, I wanted to wish Pam well on her move to Missouri! Also, maybe plant a little bug in your head. My ex's friend got fired from his job (failed a drug test....He was a COP. LMAO) and started a company called Wanna Go Out.
It's kind of an adventure company...for dogs. He takes dogs in packs hiking, swimming, running, playing while their owner is at work. Since you love dogs, I thought it might be something you could do and enjoy in MO. PS. He started this YEARS before Cesar was known as a dog walking company and it's just grown over the years.
Pam: Good luck with your move. I hope you like it in MO!!
Thanks Barbara! Your friend's company sounds AWESOME! That would be an absolute dream for us. We're hoping to start out with an adventure company and then branch out to owning a summer camp for kids. A camp where they can learn about being self-sufficient, independent, etc. I'm going to have to look up that website when I get home though, the government computer is blocking it :-(
Thanks for the well wishes as well Patty! We're going to be super stressed when we have to put Ryu on a plane so cross your fingers for us! :-) I can't wait to get back to the mainland - i feel like we're in another world over here haha