Advice on puppy confinement.(update)

edited April 2013 in General
I was hoping to get some advice on the best set up for puppy confinement. We now have a pen and crate as per Ian Dunbar's book and it kind of works. Yume is getting to be pretty good in her crate, but we still have a problem with her freaking out if we leave, even into the other room if she is not really tired or sleeping. We will be moving into a 2-floor place soon and even though she is just 11-weeks old we need to start getting her used to be left alone without her freaking out. Our new place is letting us move in on a probationary period because we have a puppy so this is of the utmost importance to us. Any advice on where we should set up the pen or crate, how big the crate should be (even brands since we will need to buy everything again) and most of all how to teach Yume that it is ok for us to be out of sight for a bit without freaking out would be greatly appreciated.

Our current set-up
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  • Hum... the freaking out when left alone part reminds me of Meichan and separation anxiety... have you ruled that out? Confinement will make it worse...

    Also, if she's athletic and agile, it's fairly easy for her to scale/climb a 30" pen, you might want to get thin sheets of plywood for the inside.
  • that is a pretty sweet playpen. I say good job :)

    but yea, just depends on how determined and athletic she is as to if she can get out. It really varies from dog to dog, so just keep an eye on her when she is in the playpen and yall are at home. Some are determined, some don't see the value in putting in that much effort. I could put my male JA in that playpen and he would be stuck. lol
  • edited March 2013
    So after Saigo came home with us, we started on the crate training. He hated the crate and would soil in it all the time (pee and poo). He cried all the time, even if we were standing right next to it and would howl, cry, whine and bark all night, really loudly. He would bite and paw at the door and basically shake the whole crate. He hated it that much. We did everything to try to get him to like his crate but he wanted to have nothing to do with it. We tried it for 2 days and then stopped. I figured it was because of the 11+ hour flight in the crate that gave him the bad experience. I hope the flight won't affect Yume and that she won't start hating the crate like Saigo did.

    Then we bought a pen and he learned to climb over it. Good thing we had the box and returned it.

    Saigo did have separation anxiety but we slowly would leave him alone starting with a few minutes, then worked our way up to 4 hours. We make sure he's empty before leaving him then we give him a bunch of toys to preoccupy himself with. If he does need to pee, he'll use the pads. We're trying to regulate the pooping and with the fixed feeding schedule, it's going pretty good. There are no pee 'accidents', he always gets in on the pad, but he's still not 100% for holding it for outside. He's got it maybe 75% of the time. He's not treat-motivated which sucks, so we're going to try to teach him to use a bell to let us know when he has to go outside.

    So Saigo has free rein in the house but we monitor his activities pretty strictly. Since we gave him free rein though, he no longer has separation anxiety. This also lets him get the Zoomies out of his system.

    I think all puppies have separation anxiety. I think it does go away when they're older but it's good to slowly wean them.
  • Try giving her a kong stuffed with something. You can freeze it as well so it last longer. Gradually increase the amount of time she is left alone. The kong helps keep her occupied. Also do not make a big deal about leaving her. Put her in the crate, give her the kong and then leave. A radio playing music may help as well. You can also try switching to a wire crate, she might feel more comfortable if she can see out more. When you return, dont make a big deal of it. Just come in, take her out of the crate, and outside to potty.
  • edited March 2013
    We will buy a higher crate when we move , but for now she can't jump out. She isn't so bad in her crate most if the time. It is just when we try to leave the room when is isn't sleeping or totally exhausted. We do give frozen kongs ect and it does keep her busy just not for that long. I am hoping to get her an antler and some hollow bones when we get to Canada.
    @mapletwinkie Yume has never pooed in the house but pees in her pen sometimes.
    We can't keep pee pads anywhere because she will eat them. We would love to allow her more places in the house but she is a destruction machine and if couldn't get at anything else would surely destroy the carpet. She prefers anything to her toys for some reason. Shigeru now has her sister and says it's the most difficult pup he has ever had!
  • Try a few puzzle toys. Put high value smelly treats in it. She will have to work to get the treats out and will tire them mentally. I have had luck with even just an empty water bottle. They have to figure out how to get the treats out of the narrow opening of the bottle. You can even mix some kibble with the treats.
  • @jeffnkazuko, destructive behaviour + confinement must be tough to deal with. You can't keep then in and you can't keep them out :( Have you tried the bitter apple spray method?
  • @mapletwinkie
    No, but we are open to anything. When we get to the new place we will make a bomb proof puppy pen and go from there. We are stressed about the move so maybe things will calm down once we arrive. Fingers crossed.
    We did manage to put Yume to bed after a long walk and go to the neighborhood Izakaya for 90 minutes without police or fire engines greeting us on our return!!
  • The destructive machine phase = teething, starts around 4 months and last ???

    Any chance you have friends with puppy of similar age? Playing usually tire them out quick
  • Yeah, tiring her out really helps but we are not going to be in a postion to be walking her 4 or 5 times a day which would be needed to keep her worn out.
    She is at the point now that if we take more than 2 steps from the pen she starts to whine and howl. She needs to learn to play by herself a bit and most of all to be quiet in the house. If we can't teach her this very quickly and someone complains either she has to go or we will have to find a new place to live.
  • aykayk
    edited March 2013
    I second the use of a wire crate. My newest came in the exact same plastic crate as yours and he hates it. We have a bigger wire one now and he considers it a den.

    I think the one he's in is a 24" x 36" crate. I have a Petco brand one with two doors and a MidWest brand with two doors. The Petco one is better quality, IMO.
  • She is not so bad in the crate, but I will get a wire on when we arrive in Canada. I am going to build a bomb-proof den I just wish I could make it sound proof as well
  • Have you tried the ticking clock trick yet? Sounds like another heartbeat so they don't feel alone?
  • Similar to another suggestion, you can leave a t.v or radio on. Also, try leaving one of your dirty shirts or socks in the pen. Something you have recently worn so it really has your scent on it.
  • Hmm she isn't so bad when she is tired or sleeping. It is all the in between times. If I walk even 2 steps from her pen she just goes nuts. So at the moment I can't even go to the toilet without her having a major episode. The TV or anything doesn't help, we start to walk or even turn away and it is like it is the end of the world. I just want to leave her and let her get it out of her system but she can go on for a long time and we really need to be careful of noise complaints.
  • Have you tried Crate Games? What about puppy classes where you can practice crating in an environment where it's ok if she shrieks? How about placing a giant piece of cardboard or blanket around her crate area that completely blocks her view, than treating her as soon as she takes a pause in the crazy behavior? The reward can be giving her her view back, or treats. We do this at the training center I go to with very high drive noisey dogs/puppies that are practicing crating/confinement while they wait their turns. It does seem to help. I have done this at home with very screamy Shiba pups with good results.
  • Practice crate games and "it's your choice"/doggy zen.

    With my extremely anxious dog I had to take things very slow. I made a lot of progress by tethering him, taking one step away and then click and came back. Then two steps. Then three, etc. Then I went out of sight for 1 second, 3 seconds, 5 seconds... I'm sure you get the idea. With separation anxiety, you need to show the dog that you come back, but only if they remain calm. If you get a freak out, go back to the last point at which you were successful and try again.

    Fingers crossed for you that it isn't actual separation anxiety and is just puppy rudeness/impulsiveness.
  • Yume does have crazy separation anxiety, and she's probably picking up on the stress levels of the move. I think dogs are really sensitive in that way. Hopefully when you guys are all moved out and in Canada, she will get better, i'm sure. Saigo used to do the same when we went upstairs to sleep, he would have a meltdown at the bottom of the stairs for hours. Now he knows we're back in the morning and he doesn't cry at all now.
  • edited April 2013
    Concur with Nekopan & Lindsay. You want to build value in being in the crate. Those methods mentioned + crate games do work. So does rewarding for the dog doing nothing and keeping "down time" relaxing/calm with chew items the dog can focus on, after she has made the connection that you will come back. Once you move you should re-work the same once in the new location and settling in.

    Snf
  • Well, Yumi did great on the flight to Canada and has been great in the crate in the car. She has still not been so great in the hotel rooms but... we are semi-hopefull.
  • Glad the flight went well for Yume.
  • Welcome Home @jeffnkazuko !!! :x
  • Well, we made it into the new place and after giving Yume a doughnut, a beer and some back bacon she is loving Canada.
    She lives the bigger place and we have managed for her not to ha e an accident in the house for the past two days. We not let her run around and only crate when she sleeps which she doesn't mind at all. I was so thrilled to take her out this morning when it was -4, but she didn't seem to mind. -4 in April? Really???
  • Yay!! Yume's prob thinking, -4, just like Hokkaido!
  • I would not be enjoying -4 weather. I think I would cry. But it's good to hear that Yume doesn't mind it.
  • So glad she made the trip safely and that you're all (relatively) settled!
  • Getting an Internet connection tomorrow so will try to throw up a few pictures. Yume is doing really well, having a 4.35 square mile off leash park in our backyard is really helping things
  • Glad to hear your little family is doing well! Yume is so lucky she has such a huge park to run around in. Can't wait to see photos! :)

    The red monster has settled in too and the separation anxiety is wearing off with time. He went to his first off leash park yesterday and wrestled with other pups.
  • @Mapletwinkie Glad to hear it. Yume is still loves jumping up on al the big dogs, she is a bit too rambunctious with most dogs but since she is a pup seems to get away with it. She really loves the new park, the cold weather and of course the snow. I think a Hokkaido was the right choice for Calgary.
  • yay! Alberta is probably the most beautiful province in Canada, and probably also one of the coldest. Calgary is perfect for Yume! :) Can't wait to see pics!
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