One thing that has not been brought up yet is that, due to the highly reactive nature of the Shikoku-Ken, they tend to have issues with other dogs.
So, while out on a hike with your dog off lead, your dog could run into another dog, that is also off lead (or not), and that could turn into a fight. At least if your dog was on lead you could help prevent a fight.
Having your dog on lead is also just courteous to other hikers, and I would bet it is against the law to have them off leash.
You listed some of the predators in your area but you didn't mention Black Bear, do you not have Black Bear?
Also, why would you have your dog sleeping outside your tent when it could be sleeping in the tent with you?
I'm going with Brad on this. If you want an outdoor, off leash dog, who you can train to come to you everytime, and anytime you want, you should look outside of the Japanese breeds. As Brad mentioned they are great outdoors, but they were not trained to retrieve. They went out in packs, sniffed around and followed trails, they kept their eye on the human, the human did not keep their eye on them.
Brad makes an excellent point regarding the Shikoku dog and its interaction with other dogs. Our Shikoku has had tons of obedience training and he goes to his trainer on a weekly basis for "social interaction" with her Rotties, however, I am never sure how he is going to interact with a dog that we might meet on our daily hikes in the park. He is THE MOST loving dog with his immediate family and invited friends but he can be an absolute terror with some(and we never know which) dogs. We don't trust him off leash either. He runs like a wolf and although he always keeps us in his sight, I am always in fear that he will run too far, get hurt (he is not afraid of cars), or be grabbed by one of his many, many admirers.
ddowdemers makes a REALLY good point, if you are off leash with a Japanese breed and it gets away - someone might not return it even with tags! A vast majority of Akitas, Shibas and even Kai dogs are on petfinder in shelters turned in as 'strays', just wandering, never claimed, or dropped off by their capturer because even they had no idea what they were getting into nabbing that gorgeous dog!
Well, first off, I want to thank everyone for their input. From our discussion today, and from some more research, I have decided to move away from the Shikoku. The dog is beautiful and would make a nice companion if I had a fenced in yard and planned on having him on a leash all the time, but thats not what I'm looking for in a dog. The wikipedia article was either misleading, or defines "ideal companion" much differently than I and most outdoorsmen that I trek with would. Sure, if I was going on a two hour hike, walking with a lease would be no big deal, and the dog would be a wonderful companion. However, I don't know anyone that would go on a multiday/week hike in the back country with equipment on your back and want to worry about leashing/looking out for their dog the entire time. With that being said, I have decided to look further into the Karilian Bear Dog, Canadian Eskimo Dog, Native American Indian Dog, or Tamaskan. Thanks to all who contributed here, and ALL of your dogs are absolutely gorgeous.
As for people mistaking a Shikoku, or any "wolf like dog" in the woods, this is a real serious problem, especially here in Vermont with such a large hunting population. It is so important to always have a bright and reflective orange hunter/safety orange collar on at all times (and on you too!). My JR, which looks more like a rabbit than a wolf or coyote even wears an orange collar all the time. I bought her one at the start of the first hunting season when I moved here. If anyone with a Shikoku lives near the woods where hunting is prevalent, even if the dog is fenced in or leashed, I would plead with you to get him or her an orange collar. I know too many hunters that will shoot at anything moving that looks remotely like a Coyote if they don't see the Orange right away. Don't take any chances!
Well, that is disappointing, because I think a Shikoku would love your life style if you could just deal with a leash.
I take multi-day backpacking trips in Carson National Forrest here in Taos, in the winter, and have never minded having a lead attached to my waist... at times it gets annoying, but I usually will stop and rope them to my pack or tree if I need to do something that the leash would cause a problem. I guess it all depends on what you are used to tho, and I think you probably made the best choice...
I guess I should thank you for considering the addition of a dog so serious. The fact you came here and asked your question about the breed says a lot, and is way more than most people do - so thanx! We all love these breeds so any passionate responses were simply out of love for the breed and not meant negatively towards you.
As for you choices... man those are really cool dog breeds! I don't envy your decision! Please please please keep us posted, we love dogs here and don't mind hearing about non-Nihon Ken. The Native American Dog is really cool there are a few here in Taos. Peggy, the Shikoku breeder has two Inuit Dogs, so you may want to contact her on finding a breeder, they are rather rare.
but most importantly... if you get a Karilian Bear Dog, you better come back and post pics and tell us all about it!!! If that breed was more pack oriented I would have one in a second! They are so cool!
I don't agree with the Native American Indian Dog. Well more like I don't agree with the fact that I'm paying $1500 for a GSD, alaskan malamute and siberian husky mutt. I could get them for $150 at the animal shelter.
Rina - that doesn't really make sense, all dog breeds are mutts. They were specifically bred with certain different breeds to get certain characterisitcs. I don't think that you should look down on 1 breed because all of the breeds that make that breed are available in shelters, its a totally different breed of dog. Thats sort of like saying that a Shiba is an Akita, they are relatives, but totally different dogs.
Jon- you might also want to look into the West Siberian Laika. If you do a forum search, Brad posted links before. Most of the breeders in the US do use them for hunting and it did seem in all the photos I saw that these dogs were not on leash. I know that there is a bigger breeder in VA. You might look into them as well. It seems to me that they might get along better with other dogs than a Karelian Bear Dog because in the photos there were often several Laikas. And I did see an add for puppies for sale from the VA breeder in the UKC magazine (I think) and they were around $500, much less than a Shikoku (not that money is everything, but the investment is definitely different).
On a side note, I wish that we had Japanese Shikoku breeders input. I am sure that in Japan they would have hunted with their dog off lead. But I would also guess (based on the other threads about the Japanese a their dogs) that if the dog got lost, it was no big deal because they had other Shikoku to replace the dog in hunting. If you read about the selection of the West Siberian Laika by Russian hunters, it was pretty brutal in that they didn't care if there dogs ran off if they didn't hunt and dogs that didn't hunt werre eliminated (not saying that the Japanese did what the Russians did, but the point is, not everyone feels the same about their dogs - even in America).
I understand the point Rina is trying to make. I don't know much about Native American Indian Dogs. Can you breed two of them and get a litter of them? Are their standards that people are breeding for? If so then you are along the lines of calling it a breed. If however with each breeding you are maybe breeding a female Native American Indian Dog to a GSD, because you want more of that look, then it's a mutt.
Just like "Puggles" are mutts and paying $1500 for them is idiotic. There is no one trying to create a breed standard for Puggles, just trying to make money. If you breed two puggles, you don't end up witha litter of puggles.
Sorry to kind of go off topic there.
Good luck finding the right dog Jon. And as Brad said, if you get a KBD, please come back and share pictures and stories.
They weren't that way to begin with Romi. They were an actual breed of dogs. They're just trying to remake the breed. It's saying let's repopulate the hokkaido by breeding shikokus and shibas. And I'm not looking down on the breed, I'm looking down on the breeders who decide to charge that much without being honest of it's background.
And that's what's going on Brandon. A NAID is getting bred with a GSD/husky mix then maybe the next litter will be one of the puppies bred with an alaskan malamute/husky mix. That sort of deal. I wouldn't mind so much if they didn't try to hide it.
Well thats all a Tamaskan is really, but they are gorgeous and have even temperments.
" Tamaskans are a combination of a different dog breeds, under the development using a procedure called breeding back. Breeders have used mainly the Bristish Utonagan, the Alaskan Malamute, The Siberian Husky, The Greenland Dog, and the German Shepard or Alsation.
This unique combination produced a well tempered superior dog that strongly resembles a wolf. Tamaskans can be recreational dogs used for sledding, backpacking, agility, and weight pulling. You will find they delight in winter sports! "
All dogs are that - dogs. Animals that if bred in captivity once born should be highly regarded as a living, breathing creation of life. The not so nice part is when they create a lucrative revenue for less than desirable people with less than the intended quality. But really - any dog can be trained properly with a good handler and consistant, responsible owner. The down side is giving money to someone who is an irresponsible breeder. And sometimes, its hard to tell who is and who isn't a good breeder.
Thanks for all the input. Even the Shikoku is not registered with the AKC, but I have read so many horror stories about the North American Indian Dog AND the Tamaskan. NAID breeders say the Tamaskan is nothing but an inbred wolf dog, and vice versa. What a mess!
I will keep you all updated with what I do. I have been in contact with a Canadian Eskimo (inuit) Dog as well.
Edgewood, do you have information about Karilian Bear Dogs not getting along with other dogs? I was just on petfinder...there are some homless ones, I might rather rescue one than buy a puppy from a breeder...there are too many homeless dogs out there.
To me, they're both just designer dogs like labradoodles and puggles. Sure the NAID and Tamaskans are gorgeous dogs, I'd pay for the the quality of getting healthy dogs bred with each other but I refuse to pay for just the sake of "rare" breeds.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE how the NAID looks and would love to own one. I think their temperaments and looks are perfect. I just wont pay what they're asking and think it's a rip-off.
With Tamskans I believe they are to the point where they can breed Tamskan to Tamskan, and get a Tamskan. And yes I know, all dogs should be loved and treated really well, I was just debating breeding, mutts, and purebreds.
This is a good website to find out some information for KBD's:
Jon have you ever thought about breeds like Wirehaired Pointing Griffons? There is a guy who brings a couple of these to the dog park. They are smart as can be, he calls them with a whistle and they just come sit right by his side, even at the dogpark.
Brandon: That is good info on the KBD; however, looking here (http://www.beardogs.org/kbds/owning.html) it appears they don't make good off-leash dogs either. I guess there really aren't very many breeds that are reliable off leash huh?
Well there are a lot of good off leash breeds, we just aren't really talking about any of them. Most of them are European or American hunting breeds. Any of the Retrievers (Labs, Chesepeaks, Goldens) make great off leash dogs, as well as German Shorthaired Pointers, the above mentioned Wirehaird. Also dogs that are used for police and military work such as GSDs and Belgian Malinois (or the other two Belgian Shepards) can make great off leash dogs.
You guys and gals are all awesome! Even though I am looking elseware than a Shikoku, if ya'll like, I will keep updating this with info I find.
I really LOVE the look of both the Tamaskin and the NAID, but I have read some scary stuff about them. Check out this website (if you have a lot of time)
It is a few years old, but still scary to me. It more deals with the NAID than the Tamaskin, but I have heard similar things about the Tamaskan just being an inbred coyote or wolf with major genetic disorders and health problems.
tsukitsune, I like dogs that resemble the original dog, the wolf. I want a dog that loves to be outdoors, not indoors. A large strong dog I can be rough with and wrestle with and run down the side of a mountain with. One that is instinctually a wilderness dog, but won't eat and kill my little dog! I know these are tough criteria, but I'm not in a rush to buy one, and I won't do it until I find the right fit. I love animals more than I love humans, and I won't buy a dog until I find on that will be as happy with my life style as I am with it.
If I could own a wolf, I would, but it is illegal and wrong to own a wild animal. The next best thing I suppose are the tons of dogs that resemble the Wolf in a number of ways. The very striking looks of the Shikoku is what first grabbed my attention, and then the wikipedia article that said it was a mountain dog.
So this list right now...
Karilian Bear Dog
Tamaskan (Lots of question marks)
North American Indian Dog (lots of question marks)
Canadian Eskimo (inuit) dog
I am also adding Malamute and Laika.
and I know completely different but I also LOVE Chesepeaks and Burnese Mountain Dogs The only problem with the BMD is the very very short life expectancy. I would be so sad.
All this being said, I'm not set on getting a purepred, I think finding a mutt with these breeds in them in a shelter would probably be the best option. There are so many sad dogs on petfinder.com
I knew someone who had an Inuit-Malamute cross, incredible dog, beautiful even at a ripe old age of 12, and past puppy-dom was always on his masters' right hand side.
I love that you are doing your research. That is what makes a very good, committed for life dog owner.
Truth be told, if I had it to do over again - i probably would have taken on a rescued pit bull instead of the rescue shibas. Not that I don't LOVE my shibas - I'm hooked! But I can't explain it, I just love me a pit bull, every time there is a benefit for our local SPCA, I love interacting with the pits and pit mixes. Maybe someday!
Just for funsies, it was this youtube video in my animal sciences course that led me to interest in utonagan than tamaskans:
My opinion is that most dogs that resemble wolves in looks usually resemble them in temperament and though they are all loyal dogs, none of them are really suggested off leash. Sure, it can be done but why take the hit or miss chance ya know?
If you like Chesapeaks you should add them to your list. The fit your needs pretty well. They train really well off leash, they come when called (retriever duh), they are great for the outdoors ("waterproof" coats), they like to rough house, and they can work all day.
Brandon....they have been added. I went from 15 or so breeds, to 1, now back to 8 A 15 year commitment and bond is nothing to go into without lots and lots and lots and lots thinking and discussing!
Yeah, seriously. And it'll be a good idea to meet the dogs and see what they're like in real life. Honestly if I was just reading up on shibas and never owned one in my life I would never want to own one. They seem like such a hassle. In real life sure they're a bit difficult but I know I'm more than capable of handling them because I've handled them my whole life.
Research, meeting with a breeder (in my case rescue) to discuss a possible match and watching Brad's youtube videos convinced me that I could handle a shiba!!
Comments
I am super late on this one.
One of my BIG hesitations with having a shikoku off lead is their strong resemblance to coyote and their risk of being shot because of that.
As far as wait, I waited over a year for mine.
One thing that has not been brought up yet is that, due to the highly reactive nature of the Shikoku-Ken, they tend to have issues with other dogs.
So, while out on a hike with your dog off lead, your dog could run into another dog, that is also off lead (or not), and that could turn into a fight. At least if your dog was on lead you could help prevent a fight.
Having your dog on lead is also just courteous to other hikers, and I would bet it is against the law to have them off leash.
You listed some of the predators in your area but you didn't mention Black Bear, do you not have Black Bear?
GSD = German Shepard Dog
Also, why would you have your dog sleeping outside your tent when it could be sleeping in the tent with you?
I'm going with Brad on this. If you want an outdoor, off leash dog, who you can train to come to you everytime, and anytime you want, you should look outside of the Japanese breeds. As Brad mentioned they are great outdoors, but they were not trained to retrieve. They went out in packs, sniffed around and followed trails, they kept their eye on the human, the human did not keep their eye on them.
Brad makes an excellent point regarding the Shikoku dog and its interaction with other dogs. Our Shikoku has had tons of obedience training and he goes to his trainer on a weekly basis for "social interaction" with her Rotties, however, I am never sure how he is going to interact with a dog that we might meet on our daily hikes in the park. He is THE MOST loving dog with his immediate family and invited friends but he can be an absolute terror with some (and we never know which) dogs. We don't trust him off leash either. He runs like a wolf and although he always keeps us in his sight, I am always in fear that he will run too far, get hurt (he is not afraid of cars), or be grabbed by one of his many, many admirers.
Well, first off, I want to thank everyone for their input. From our discussion today, and from some more research, I have decided to move away from the Shikoku. The dog is beautiful and would make a nice companion if I had a fenced in yard and planned on having him on a leash all the time, but thats not what I'm looking for in a dog. The wikipedia article was either misleading, or defines "ideal companion" much differently than I and most outdoorsmen that I trek with would. Sure, if I was going on a two hour hike, walking with a lease would be no big deal, and the dog would be a wonderful companion. However, I don't know anyone that would go on a multiday/week hike in the back country with equipment on your back and want to worry about leashing/looking out for their dog the entire time. With that being said, I have decided to look further into the Karilian Bear Dog, Canadian Eskimo Dog, Native American Indian Dog, or Tamaskan. Thanks to all who contributed here, and ALL of your dogs are absolutely gorgeous.
As for people mistaking a Shikoku, or any "wolf like dog" in the woods, this is a real serious problem, especially here in Vermont with such a large hunting population. It is so important to always have a bright and reflective orange hunter/safety orange collar on at all times (and on you too!). My JR, which looks more like a rabbit than a wolf or coyote even wears an orange collar all the time. I bought her one at the start of the first hunting season when I moved here. If anyone with a Shikoku lives near the woods where hunting is prevalent, even if the dog is fenced in or leashed, I would plead with you to get him or her an orange collar. I know too many hunters that will shoot at anything moving that looks remotely like a Coyote if they don't see the Orange right away. Don't take any chances!
Well, that is disappointing, because I think a Shikoku would love your life style if you could just deal with a leash.
I take multi-day backpacking trips in Carson National Forrest here in Taos, in the winter, and have never minded having a lead attached to my waist... at times it gets annoying, but I usually will stop and rope them to my pack or tree if I need to do something that the leash would cause a problem. I guess it all depends on what you are used to tho, and I think you probably made the best choice...
I guess I should thank you for considering the addition of a dog so serious. The fact you came here and asked your question about the breed says a lot, and is way more than most people do - so thanx! We all love these breeds so any passionate responses were simply out of love for the breed and not meant negatively towards you.
As for you choices... man those are really cool dog breeds! I don't envy your decision! Please please please keep us posted, we love dogs here and don't mind hearing about non-Nihon Ken. The Native American Dog is really cool there are a few here in Taos. Peggy, the Shikoku breeder has two Inuit Dogs, so you may want to contact her on finding a breeder, they are rather rare.
but most importantly... if you get a Karilian Bear Dog, you better come back and post pics and tell us all about it!!!
Good luck man!
Rina - that doesn't really make sense, all dog breeds are mutts. They were specifically bred with certain different breeds to get certain characterisitcs. I don't think that you should look down on 1 breed because all of the breeds that make that breed are available in shelters, its a totally different breed of dog. Thats sort of like saying that a Shiba is an Akita, they are relatives, but totally different dogs.
Jon- you might also want to look into the West Siberian Laika. If you do a forum search, Brad posted links before. Most of the breeders in the US do use them for hunting and it did seem in all the photos I saw that these dogs were not on leash. I know that there is a bigger breeder in VA. You might look into them as well. It seems to me that they might get along better with other dogs than a Karelian Bear Dog because in the photos there were often several Laikas. And I did see an add for puppies for sale from the VA breeder in the UKC magazine (I think) and they were around $500, much less than a Shikoku (not that money is everything, but the investment is definitely different).
On a side note, I wish that we had Japanese Shikoku breeders input. I am sure that in Japan they would have hunted with their dog off lead. But I would also guess (based on the other threads about the Japanese a their dogs) that if the dog got lost, it was no big deal because they had other Shikoku to replace the dog in hunting. If you read about the selection of the West Siberian Laika by Russian hunters, it was pretty brutal in that they didn't care if there dogs ran off if they didn't hunt and dogs that didn't hunt werre eliminated (not saying that the Japanese did what the Russians did, but the point is, not everyone feels the same about their dogs - even in America).
I understand the point Rina is trying to make. I don't know much about Native American Indian Dogs. Can you breed two of them and get a litter of them? Are their standards that people are breeding for? If so then you are along the lines of calling it a breed. If however with each breeding you are maybe breeding a female Native American Indian Dog to a GSD, because you want more of that look, then it's a mutt.
Just like "Puggles" are mutts and paying $1500 for them is idiotic. There is no one trying to create a breed standard for Puggles, just trying to make money. If you breed two puggles, you don't end up witha litter of puggles.
Sorry to kind of go off topic there.
Good luck finding the right dog Jon. And as Brad said, if you get a KBD, please come back and share pictures and stories.
They weren't that way to begin with Romi. They were an actual breed of dogs. They're just trying to remake the breed. It's saying let's repopulate the hokkaido by breeding shikokus and shibas. And I'm not looking down on the breed, I'm looking down on the breeders who decide to charge that much without being honest of it's background.
And that's what's going on Brandon. A NAID is getting bred with a GSD/husky mix then maybe the next litter will be one of the puppies bred with an alaskan malamute/husky mix. That sort of deal. I wouldn't mind so much if they didn't try to hide it.
" Tamaskans are a combination of a different dog breeds, under the
development using a procedure called breeding back. Breeders
have used mainly the Bristish Utonagan, the Alaskan Malamute,
The Siberian Husky, The Greenland Dog, and the German Shepard or
Alsation.
This unique combination produced a well tempered superior dog
that strongly resembles a wolf. Tamaskans can be recreational
dogs used for sledding, backpacking, agility, and weight
pulling. You will find they delight in winter
sports! "
All dogs are that - dogs. Animals that if bred in
captivity once born should be highly regarded as a living, breathing
creation of life. The not so nice part is when they create a lucrative
revenue for less than desirable people with less than the intended
quality. But really - any dog can be trained properly with a good
handler and consistant, responsible owner. The down side is giving
money to someone who is an irresponsible breeder. And sometimes, its
hard to tell who is and who isn't a good breeder.
Thanks for all the input. Even the Shikoku is not registered with the AKC, but I have read so many horror stories about the North American Indian Dog AND the Tamaskan. NAID breeders say the Tamaskan is nothing but an inbred wolf dog, and vice versa. What a mess!
I will keep you all updated with what I do. I have been in contact with a Canadian Eskimo (inuit) Dog as well.
Edgewood, do you have information about Karilian Bear Dogs not getting along with other dogs? I was just on petfinder...there are some homless ones, I might rather rescue one than buy a puppy from a breeder...there are too many homeless dogs out there.
To me, they're both just designer dogs like labradoodles and puggles. Sure the NAID and Tamaskans are gorgeous dogs, I'd pay for the the quality of getting healthy dogs bred with each other but I refuse to pay for just the sake of "rare" breeds.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE how the NAID looks and would love to own one. I think their temperaments and looks are perfect. I just wont pay what they're asking and think it's a rip-off.
With Tamskans I believe they are to the point where they can breed Tamskan to Tamskan, and get a Tamskan. And yes I know, all dogs should be loved and treated really well, I was just debating breeding, mutts, and purebreds.
This is a good website to find out some information for KBD's:
http://www.beardogs.org/kbds/
Jon have you ever thought about breeds like Wirehaired Pointing Griffons? There is a guy who brings a couple of these to the dog park. They are smart as can be, he calls them with a whistle and they just come sit right by his side, even at the dogpark.
Well there are a lot of good off leash breeds, we just aren't really talking about any of them. Most of them are European or American hunting breeds. Any of the Retrievers (Labs, Chesepeaks, Goldens) make great off leash dogs, as well as German Shorthaired Pointers, the above mentioned Wirehaird. Also dogs that are used for police and military work such as GSDs and Belgian Malinois (or the other two Belgian Shepards) can make great off leash dogs.
what attracted you to these type of dogs?
what are your criteria other than off leash training and hiking?
it doesn't hurt to fill this out of you are not sure: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/search.htm
You guys and gals are all awesome! Even though I am looking elseware than a Shikoku, if ya'll like, I will keep updating this with info I find.
I really LOVE the look of both the Tamaskin and the NAID, but I have read some scary stuff about them. Check out this website (if you have a lot of time)
It is a few years old, but still scary to me. It more deals with the NAID than the Tamaskin, but I have heard similar things about the Tamaskan just being an inbred coyote or wolf with major genetic disorders and health problems.
tsukitsune, I like dogs that resemble the original dog, the wolf. I want a dog that loves to be outdoors, not indoors. A large strong dog I can be rough with and wrestle with and run down the side of a mountain with. One that is instinctually a wilderness dog, but won't eat and kill my little dog! I know these are tough criteria, but I'm not in a rush to buy one, and I won't do it until I find the right fit. I love animals more than I love humans, and I won't buy a dog until I find on that will be as happy with my life style as I am with it.
If I could own a wolf, I would, but it is illegal and wrong to own a wild animal. The next best thing I suppose are the tons of dogs that resemble the Wolf in a number of ways. The very striking looks of the Shikoku is what first grabbed my attention, and then the wikipedia article that said it was a mountain dog.
So this list right now...
Karilian Bear Dog
Tamaskan (Lots of question marks)
North American Indian Dog (lots of question marks)
Canadian Eskimo (inuit) dog
I am also adding Malamute and Laika.
and I know completely different but I also LOVE Chesepeaks and Burnese Mountain Dogs
All this being said, I'm not set on getting a purepred, I think finding a mutt with these breeds in them in a shelter would probably be the best option. There are so many sad dogs on petfinder.com
I knew someone who had an Inuit-Malamute cross, incredible dog,
beautiful even at a ripe old age of 12, and past puppy-dom was always
on his masters' right hand side.
I love that you are doing your research. That is what makes a very good, committed for life dog owner.
Truth be told, if I had it to do over again - i probably would have
taken on a rescued pit bull instead of the rescue shibas. Not that I don't LOVE my shibas - I'm hooked! But I can't
explain it, I just love me a pit bull, every time there is a benefit for our
local SPCA, I love interacting with the pits and pit mixes. Maybe
someday!
Just
for funsies, it was this youtube video in my animal sciences course
that led me to interest in utonagan than tamaskans:
My opinion is that most dogs that resemble wolves in looks usually resemble them in temperament and though they are all loyal dogs, none of them are really suggested off leash. Sure, it can be done but why take the hit or miss chance ya know?
possible match and watching Brad's youtube videos convinced me that I
could handle a shiba!!