@shibamistress I think most of Zora's black face is caused by the same genes that give other AAs their black mask, and that if she didn't have that mask she probably would have a face pattern similar to Titan. I would consider her a high white like Titan but not extreme like Che.
Though it's interesting, there are some piebald huskies where they have normal piebald patterning, or are mostly white, but the color doesn't recede back on their faces.
That makes sense! She and Titan are similar in amount of white and amount of black, though she has a bit more than him.
Interesting! I noted, particularly, these lines about head color, from that site: "On a piebald dog, only the head, back and tail base may still be coloured. The back colouring is the next to go, followed by the tail base, then the face markings."
Zora's head is black, but also the spot on her back is from the base of her tail.
I'm kind of thinking Meitou's black fur could possibly be dark red like was mentioned before, but I really can't tell for sure. I finally got around to uploading the pictures and one video, but they are such poor quality I don't think they help much. I also tried the bright light experiment on a black hair I plucked from Amy. Hers looked pretty similar to Meitou's, but maybe that is because her father was a red BC and she carries red.
I'm pretty sure once January rolls around I'm still going to do a color DNA test because I think it sounds fun.
As far as a white Hokkaido being black and tan, just from looking at pedigrees it seems like Katana has a better likelihood of being/carrying black and tan than Meitou since Katana has a black and tan dog in his pedigree (paternal grandfather I believe).
I feel pretty sure that Meitou's mysterious dark hairs (which have increased in number yet again) or dark red and not black. I found a clearly red hair on him recently, near one that looked black. Plus...see below.
On February 25th I got back Meitou's test results for color (and CEA) test. Per the results from Animal Genetics he is homozygous AY/AY, so he's red (right?). Which actually makes me really happy. Finally something about my life with Meitou that went as expected, lol. And apparently he carries a gene for brown? Which I guess makes sense but I hadn't thought about it before. On the B locus he is B/b and the description says " B/b: Dog carries a copy of the allele responsible for brown color, and can potentially pass on that allele to future offspring."
So the basic rundown of his results is this
AY locus: AY/AY (Dog has two copies of the gene responsible for fawn/sable coat color.) at locus: n/n (Dog does not carry the tan points/tricolor gene.) a locus: n/n (Dog does not carry the gene responsible for recessive black coat color.) B locus: B/b (Dog carries a copy of the allele responsible for brown color, and can potentially pass on that allele to future offspring.) D locus: D/D (Dog is negative for the dilution gene.) E locus: e/e (The dog is yellow-based, and will always pass on a copy of the yellow allele to any offspring.) EM locus: n/n (Dog does not carry allele for melanistic mask.) K locus: n/n (Dog does not have the dominant black gene, and the color pattern is determined by the Agouti gene.) S locus: N/N (Negative: Dog is negative for the spotting or parti-color gene.)
@ayk It is weird for Hokkaido? Hmn. It seemed weird to me at first, then the more I thought it must be normal since I'm not all that knowledgeable about genetics. It kind of makes me wonder if other Hokkas carry it.
@Losech I don't know, but I'm not really all that disappointed by the results. But I think I'm a little less attached to b/t than others so it wasn't something I was too concerned about. I'm just excited to know things I didn't know before.
I haven't seen very many examples of b/b Nihon Ken. I've seen a few pictures of dogs that looked b/b (usually older photographs) but almost no recent ones. I can't think of any off the top of my head...
I just like lots of colors is all. I'm a fan of genetic diversity, I don't like it when dogs look like they came out of a cookie cutter stamp. but it really doesn't matter that much when you take the whole dog into account. A healthy temperamentally sound dog is more important to me than color.
@Losech I totally understand. So for diversity Meitou has the red covered? lol And apparently the random brown. If you come across those pictures of dogs that look brown I'd love to see them.
I have seen one brown/liver-looking Kai Ken somewhere on the forum talking about akatora. It was unclear if the dog was truly brown, sunburnt, or if the lighting was bad.
I did MDDNA for nami. It doesn't cover as many alleles, but it has more uses than color testing. That was 180 for the full panel. I have heard of a lab that does all the color alleles for around the same price.
@cezieg I went through Animal Genetics because they had added the CEA test and I liked being able to do the color tests and the CEA test at the same time (for some reason my vet told me they couldn't test for CEA and that I would have to go to a specialist?). Anyway, the CEA test was $75. For the whole color panel it was $130. If you want to only do a certain locus then there is a breakdown for that, too. Plus they have a ton of other genetic disease tests, etc.
The Yakushima dogs have b/b as well as being a vivid red, similar to the Ryukyu dog linked. Most of them were black-based, but I do remember seeing some "red nosed" ones. I'll see if I can find them again.
I was reminded of this thread after looking through Meitou's Optimal Selection (I guess it used to be MyDogDNA?) and noticed that in the coat color section the Optimal Selection test also reports Meitou as carrying b, if I am understanding it correctly.
Comments
That makes sense! She and Titan are similar in amount of white and amount of black, though she has a bit more than him. Interesting! I noted, particularly, these lines about head color, from that site: "On a piebald dog, only the head, back and tail base may still be coloured. The back colouring is the next to go, followed by the tail base, then the face markings."
Zora's head is black, but also the spot on her back is from the base of her tail.
I'm pretty sure once January rolls around I'm still going to do a color DNA test because I think it sounds fun.
As far as a white Hokkaido being black and tan, just from looking at pedigrees it seems like Katana has a better likelihood of being/carrying black and tan than Meitou since Katana has a black and tan dog in his pedigree (paternal grandfather I believe).
Katana's pedigree: http://www.hokkaido-pedigree.com/details.php?id=63497
For comparison, here is Meitou's: http://www.hokkaido-pedigree.com/details.php?id=63553
On February 25th I got back Meitou's test results for color (and CEA) test. Per the results from Animal Genetics he is homozygous AY/AY, so he's red (right?). Which actually makes me really happy.
So the basic rundown of his results is this
AY locus: AY/AY (Dog has two copies of the gene responsible for fawn/sable coat color.)
at locus: n/n (Dog does not carry the tan points/tricolor gene.)
a locus: n/n (Dog does not carry the gene responsible for recessive black coat color.)
B locus: B/b (Dog carries a copy of the allele responsible for brown color, and can potentially pass on that allele to future offspring.)
D locus: D/D (Dog is negative for the dilution gene.)
E locus: e/e (The dog is yellow-based, and will always pass on a copy of the yellow allele to any offspring.)
EM locus: n/n (Dog does not carry allele for melanistic mask.)
K locus: n/n (Dog does not have the dominant black gene, and the color pattern is determined by the Agouti gene.)
S locus: N/N (Negative: Dog is negative for the spotting or parti-color gene.)
@Losech I don't know, but I'm not really all that disappointed by the results. But I think I'm a little less attached to b/t than others so it wasn't something I was too concerned about. I'm just excited to know things I didn't know before.
I just like lots of colors is all. I'm a fan of genetic diversity, I don't like it when dogs look like they came out of a cookie cutter stamp. but it really doesn't matter that much when you take the whole dog into account. A healthy temperamentally sound dog is more important to me than color.
I did MDDNA for nami. It doesn't cover as many alleles, but it has more uses than color testing. That was 180 for the full panel. I have heard of a lab that does all the color alleles for around the same price.
Sample collection kits are free but need to be ordered from Animal Genetics.
The list of all the available tests and their prices can be found here.
This is what b/b looks like in combination with "red", "black/tan", and "white". (Examples not a NK.)
http://okinawa-dog.seesaa.net/article/13539484.html