Yes, I watched it through. You removed the muzzle after they finished and went to their corners. And here again is where I really am dubious about your ability to read body cues from these dogs...you really need to get a professional in there asap.
Ok, first off - my professional background is in canine behavior and, like Tain, I operated out of a dog daycare. You see and must be able to read and understand complicated behavior patterns and canine body language to do the job well, so I wouldn't discredit Tain's ability to assess what is happening in this video. These are behaviors ALL DOGS show, not just male, intact Akitas. They are not unicorns. They are not special. They are dogs.
I worked in this capacity for several years and most of my referrals were for complicated behavior issues (fear, aggression, etc) in multiple dog and multiple-human households. Additionally, I am completing my degree in behavioral psychology - which I had originally undertaken to become a CAAB (Certified, Applied Animal Behaviorist).
Your facilities and management are, quite honestly, up to par, IMO. You have nice kennels and you have a good management situation figured out for your ability. The babygate system is really nice and the I adore the kennels.
The flaws are in your perception of what is happening - which is a very, very common thing - especially in primitive, guardian, and large breed dogs, I've found (admittedly anecdotally).
I will not speak of the behavior you see every day, but I will leave my assessment of what I see in the video.
Right when the video starts, it opens to a "conversation" between Kenji and Eiji where Kenji is showing behavior I find to be completely unacceptable. He is PINNING Eiji to the wall. He is doing it with his muzzle, instead of his other body parts, but this is EXTREMELY rude behavior in canine body language and should not be tolerated. If I must anthropomorphize them to get the point across, it would be like allowing your children to headlock one another to resolve their arguments over who gets access to the milk for their first bowl of cereal.
This pin continues for about 45 seconds after you turn the video on until Kenji finally breaks because Eiji has done nothing to exacerbate Kenji's rude behavior.
When Kenji does break his pin, the tension does not go down even remotely. He is still stiff and rude and Eiji is too scared to move - probably because he knows that Kenji's rudeness may escalate into aggression.
Kenji continues with his rude behavior by staring and elevating his head over Eiji's. Eiji continues to hug the wall - typical when dogs try to "disappear" and prove they are not threats in a situation. Eiji is using everything in his toolbox for his personality to appease Kenji and Kenji is not convinced. He finally stops this behavior after almost a MINUTE of being allowed to put pressure on Eiji.
Finally, when that breaks, Kenji goes around back of Eiji (who is still too nervous/anxious/fearful to move and hugging the wall to disappear) to put more pressure on him - though Kenji's tension lessens.
When Kenji ultimately walks away, his pressure on Eiji doesn't disappear. He merely stares at Eiji from further away, which is why I'm guessing Eiji will not move (with additional discomfort for, as you say, not being in the muzzle as often as Kenji is). Kenji is even REWARDED for his bullying by your wife, who I would guess was just trying to diffuse some tension with her pat - but Kenji doesn't know that. For all he knows, he's receiving affection for his behavior, reinforcing the likelihood that behavior may be repeated.
For the rest of the video, once you take Eiji's muzzle off, he looks more comfortable, but he is constantly looking to you for help and reassurance. Right afterward, Kenji is still shadowing him kind of rudely.
If these were my dogs, I would try to decrease the opportunities Kenji had to perform the behavior he exhibits in this video and try to encourage Eiji. Not to encourage future conflict, but at least encourage him to be confident and well-adjusted. He did everything right. Kenji was in the wrong, IMO, and should have been stopped.
Let's not change the subject. That is a different story. That dog bite is how I know Eiji is not scared of Kenji and it is what happens when you don't use the proper tools to seperate a dog fight. Which is why you see harnesses and leashes and Muzzles.
Let's try to forget about the water. The water has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation that the dogs are having in this video. This conversation that the dogs are having is about who is above who in the pack. There are 3 mins left on the second half of this meeting. More will be revealed in that.
Plz lets stay civil. I am putting myself out there. I would like for you guys to be my friends. I will always do my best to be respectful.
The behavior in that video is quite scary and not something I would tolerate with my dogs. I'd have to agree that that is bullying or resource guarding, and not hierarchical dominance. I'm betting had there been any sudden loud noise or movement during that confrontation (clapping hands, dropped pots) the AA would have tried to rip the JA a new one.
Sure a down tail does mean fear, but neither dog is showing fear. When a dog is anxious or stressed, the tail will tighten and fly high to express this kind of tension. They are both showing anxiety during that "conversation", and I do hope you are doing whatever you can to avoid repeats of these kinds of situations. I would keep them separated, especially when unsupervised, and give them controlled meetings that are focused on positive experiences together. Throw the dominance and conversation stuff out the window, all that's doing for you is making your situation even worse.
My shiba hates hates hates new dogs in his house, when I added the Shikoku and the second husky he was all about wanting to tear them apart. Had I allowed him to "show his dominance", I would not be able to type this with all 4 dogs sleeping calmly together. I made a few mistakes when adding the Shikoku, she is just as hard headed as he is (some would call her a dominant type, but I just consider her b**chy) and for the first year I had to be super vigilant with their interactions together. If either growled, the other would growl back and if left unchecked would escalate into an argument or fight. We avoided these types of "conversations" as the more we allow them to practice it the more it would become a habit. Instead, they were kept separated and rotated until we felt that they were comfortable enough to be together.
During this time they did get to see each other and have no contact interactions during walks and outings, associating each other with these fun and desired experiences really helped improve their relationship with each other. Isn't and won't ever be 100%, there may be moments where they'll try to butt heads, but by preventing them from practicing bullying behaviors early on and redirecting their attention to something else before tensions rise, they are able to be loose in the house together without issues. Heck, they'll even play together when the mood hits them, though the Shikoku does prefer the wrestling play style of the huskies over the running play style of the shiba.
@T_Dog - I don't think anyone dislikes you or is trying to put you on the spot. We're genuinely trying to assist in your multi-dog management. I have multiple dogs who dislike one another. I totally understand. I just wanted to write what I saw in that video to try to help.
These aren't "conversations" between dogs, these are danger signs. Interactions yes, but certainly not harmless exchanges as the word "conversation" implies.
Second video: the JA is not comfortable enough to fully relax, I see some panting for both, some arousal in the AA, and some penis checks in the JA, yawns, looking away, lip licking...all stress/appeasement signs. About 2:30 we see the same very rude inappropriate behavior from the AA, which is no surprise as he was just rewarded and encouraged to do this...menacing, T'ing off, growling and getting right in the other dogs space (who tries to move away but the AA is allowed to continue being an ass)...it goes painfully on and on without help from mom and dad...then the AA goes and gets rewarded again and the JA shakes it off to try and diffuse tension.
Good pointers from crispy and calia, you should read those carefully. Although I do have to say in this thread, repeatedly telling someone to give up their dog telling someone they are not adequate condescendingly does not help. However I do agree that it's probably best to go to a behaviorist, Stare downs happened way too often in those videos. You need to start training not only the dogs on right and wrong behaviors but you also need to start becoming a great leader to them so that they look to you for instruction instead of correcting situations on their own.
I also have to say kudos to you for your positive outlook on how you can help fix the situation. I do agree with you that there are a lot of harassmentish comments here to are blatantly attacks. But keep in mind, that people here are very passionate about dogs, so when they see that someone isn't taking care of their dogs in a correct way, they flip out and over react. So basically their hearts are in the right places, it's just their versions of expressing it may just plain old sound too condescending to even regard.
ok near the end of the video I called Kenji away. I praised him for coming to me. I felt that if I had reached in and grabbed Kenji he would of attacked Eiji. So I can stop him from his "rude" behavior by calling him away. I can teach him not to do this. but does anyone think that if I disagree with this behavior he might just wait for me to trust them together and do it when I am not looking? if I use this method of stopping this behavior will I ever be able to trust them alone? Kenji doesn't do this to Mars. but if Tachi Challenges him he will do this to Tachi until Tachi submits. as a behaviorist do you not think that submission is necessary? I have noticed with Akita that as long as one is willing to submit to the other they will get along. I am thinking that Eiji put up with the behavior from Kenji because he has grown up with Kenji. He has made several agreements with Kenji over the last 4 month. about bones and the food bowl and also about what is acceptable during play. Kenji taught him that he cant get mad so easy when he was a young pup. he taught him that he cant lose his temper when playing with Mars. Kenji assisted me several times when the two pups would get in a fight. these pups have been submitting to Kenji for 4 months. now they are teenagers and they are challenging him. Kenji has fathered these pups. He has palyed gentle with them. he has corrected them gentle. he has taught them to be nice to each other. now that they are big and rebellious what he is doing in the video could be seen as bullying. but I am seeing it as him reinforcing that they should not challenge him. in this video you do not see Eiji challenging him. Eiji Challenged him a few days ago. which is why I have a bite on my hand. That's what happens when your head locking your AA while your JA attacks him. because you were not properly prepared. by you I mean me.
If my dog is scared of another dog he is going to bite it, the quickest way to get that scary thing away. Why does your dog biting the other mean he isn't afraid of it? Point is, he is trying everything he can so the other dog fucks off, all that he hasnt tried in the videos is biting but it will come next
so what I am getting from this is that I should continue the meetings but not allow Kenji to Dominate/Bully Eiji. so I will try that. I know that question was rhetorical @omgtain everyone is moving away from "the pack theory" not sure what to call this new way. is it called Positive reinforcement also? like obedience training?
T_Dog, research Classical and Operant Conditioning, learning more about these methods of behavioral adjustment will help you better work with your dogs. Getting a certified behaviorist will best help you learn how to utilize these learning methods for your particular situation.
ok I will do that. for and update. I just muzzled Kenji and let him in the living room with Eiji. They are being aloof with each other. Kenji is laying at my wife's feet and Eiji at mine. they are 5' apart. I took video but nothing happened worth a 4 hour uploading process. on Friday when I get paid I am gonna make an appointment with the behaviorist I found near my area. it may not seem like it but I do appreciate the input of this community.
Some dogs, akita, shiba, and japanese dogs in particular, dont like to be in each others faces. I would rather they ignore eachothers existence than be so micromanaging and each others faces.
But no, really, i dont know what you mean when you say challenge, or submit, dominance, etc. Like what is submitting? Is that rolling over to expose their belly? Is it letting a resource go? Is it avoiding situations? What is a challenge? A hard stare, a growl, head over the shoulder, taking a resource?
This is why a lot of us do not believe in alpha/pack/dominance theory. It becomes an excuse, a scapegoat, and is either too vague or too complicated and read in to.
When working with dogs you have to go to the very bare bones of what is happening. A looks at B. B reacts this way. A does this. C walks in. A butterfly floats by.
The fact that your wife stands up immediately and steps away when your AA approaches to cock block your JA is a huge red flag. Why would you allow a situation that your wife knows instinctively is dangerous and has to remove herself from? Your JA was doing nothing except getting belly rubs from your wife, yet your AA feels compelled to walk over and ruin the JA's enjoyment just to show he has control...control over you, your wife and the JA. He did not correct bad behavior, he just put fear in the JA because he could. He is a bully. You should have never allowed that to happen.
You are hoping by forcing these dangerous meetings to happen that the dogs will somehow work out the pecking order and have harmony. But in fact, you are just allowing a bully to dominate everyone in the household. Instead of correcting the first sign of aggression and posturing, you reward the bad behavior by allowing it to happen over and over again. Even submissive dogs have their limit when they feel they have no other choice but to defend themselves. And that's what your JA will do first chance he gets because he is living under constant threat and the humans are allowing it to happen.
@bearmom The reason for this dangerous meeting was to let them have a conversation while we are there to make sure no one gets hurt.
My wife stood up and got out cuz I asked her to. I asked her to cuz tentions were high. My wife doesn't fear either dog. But she knew like me that we didn't want her to be a reason for a fight to happen. Meaning that just pulling on Kenji may have started an attack. Cuz thats what started the last fight was me pulling on Kenji at the wrong time. Like a butterfly floating by... This first meeting after a fight that happened a couple days ago was a tense one. I want to point out again that they are kept separate and have been kept separate since the disagreements began. This was a 15 minute meeting. They don't live in constant stress. Kenji does not act like this everytime he meets Eiji. These are special circumstances where they had a disagreement on the last meeting. That disagreement I was not prepared for. It was all we could do to keep Kenji from hurting Eiji. I winded up getting hurt cuz Eiji was biting Kenji while I was holding his head to my chest. My wife barly got Eiji out of the room. We do things differently now. Safer. Now Kenji is Muzzled cuz he causes puncture wounds during disagreements. The Muzzle gives us time to get them apart if something starts. Kenji don't even try to remove the Muzzle. That's good cuz he won't be able to actually bite while I pull him out.
After posting the videos and listening to the behaviorists I have decided to change up my plan. I was informed of a few mistakes that I have made.
I didn't see the praising of bad behavior. Now I do. We praised Kenji when we thought we was calming him. Or rewarding him for coming when called. I can see how he might see that as reward for dominance/bullying.
I also see the point being made about not allowing him to do those things. So I will be calling Kenji away when he starts to do those things. "Redirect" him.
I don't plan on leaving them alone together probably ever again. So Kenji won't get a chance to do it when I am not looking.
So I mentioned I was putting Kenji's muzzle on. I redirected Kenji three times. During the last visit. What happened was that they both layed down and took a nap as we watched TV. They ignored each other most the time.
@Omgtain I see your point. Yes your definitions are accurate and your point about it being vague is also accurate.
I want you all to know that I learned a few things today from posting this video. I appreciate your help. Thank you for following my thread. Thank you for speaking up. I can be hard headed at times. But I am a logical and analytical person. I see the logic in the responses I have gotten. So again Thank You for Taking the time to read through all of this thread. Thank you for helping me to see things I otherwise would not have seen.
Understanding dominance is probably the hardest thing anyone can do, It's a language that animals have developed with each other over the course of thousands if not millions of years. I can guarantee almost everyone who has tried it has some form or another messed up their dogs. It's a concept no human can ever grasp and therefore should never be attempted. Even professionals loosely understand how it works, and that's why good dog trainers don't try, it's because they don't have the ability to do so and therefore attempting would be irresponsible.
The important thing is what you can do to fix that problem. The key points are generally for all forms of dog training and partnership is being a leader your dog can look towards for answers he does not understand. When you can truly master a bond with your partners things will be easier to piece together. But for now, don't try to rush it, you will probably take a few years to get it right.
Since they are young still, it might not be completely impossible. But just know that there's a good chance that they will never get along fully. They can eventually tolerate each others existence and know the rules of never fighting each other. But don't ever expect them to become good friends, because you will disappoint yourself in the end.
My elderly Malamute, who I would wager is a larger dog than any of your Akitas (he's a BIG boy and makes my Shikoku look like a terrier), is extremely strange-dog aggressive. Like, to the point where when he was 2 years old, I couldn't walk him down the street in the daytime without fear that he would try to drag me to another dog walking and minding its own business to start a fight.
After someone helped me see some of the things I was doing and I began training for 2 more years, he was finally able to start accepting other dogs with careful introductions and management. I (obviously) got more dogs and even fostered frequently, introducing him to a strange dog every few months that I expected him to live with.
I think at this point, it MAY be possible to at least have your dogs ignore one another in the household. It'll be difficult and may take time because they have been allowed to perform these behaviors for this long and you guys will have to change what you're doing, but you have really excellent facilities from what I can see in the pictures and a safe babygate system.
This thread is very educational for anyone looking to add dogs to their household, too, so you've even helped the community and future owners who might look though these old threads.
I am now letting them share the living room once a day for an hour or two as long as things go well.
Kenji really wants to be in the same room as me. So does Eiji and Mars. So for Kenji to ware the Muzzle with sharing a room with me being the reward. He also might be figuring out that he hasta leave the room if he is not nice. Sharing a room with me has become high value to him.
So far all they do is lay down and nap they are not having conversations cuz I won't let them.
Eventually I will need to do this with Mars. The only thing about Mars that I don't like is that he growls when ever Eiji gets to close. This affects Kenji in a negative way even if he is not in the same room.
They all three want to be in the same room. The fact that they might fight don't bother them. If Eiji is in the livingroom and Mars and Kenji are in the kitchen. They will whine to get in the livingroom because that's where I am. They don't understand why I am separating them. But they whine less and less each day. I do still rotate them.
Eiji wants to be with the other two. If I let him out the front he runs around to the slider and asks to get in the kitchen with them. Or if they are in their Kennels. He is out there laying with them. It's funny how they want to be with each other. But when they are they end up fighting.
Each time I call Kenji away I feel the leadership you talk about working. Kenji is not looking to me for guidance yet. But he does listen to me when i give the command.
Eiji will come lay at my feet now when Kenji is in the room. My wife pointed out yesterday that he is coming to me for protection. I now see that he is looking for me to protect him by controlling Kenji. Thanks for helping me see that.
Hopefully I will have money on Friday for a visit from the behaviorists I found. I will update again after her visit.
T_Dog, research Classical and Operant Conditioning, learning more about these methods of behavioral adjustment will help you better work with your dogs. Getting a certified behaviorist will best help you learn how to utilize these learning methods for your particular situation.
Comments
I worked in this capacity for several years and most of my referrals were for complicated behavior issues (fear, aggression, etc) in multiple dog and multiple-human households. Additionally, I am completing my degree in behavioral psychology - which I had originally undertaken to become a CAAB (Certified, Applied Animal Behaviorist).
Your facilities and management are, quite honestly, up to par, IMO. You have nice kennels and you have a good management situation figured out for your ability. The babygate system is really nice and the I adore the kennels.
The flaws are in your perception of what is happening - which is a very, very common thing - especially in primitive, guardian, and large breed dogs, I've found (admittedly anecdotally).
I will not speak of the behavior you see every day, but I will leave my assessment of what I see in the video.
Right when the video starts, it opens to a "conversation" between Kenji and Eiji where Kenji is showing behavior I find to be completely unacceptable. He is PINNING Eiji to the wall. He is doing it with his muzzle, instead of his other body parts, but this is EXTREMELY rude behavior in canine body language and should not be tolerated. If I must anthropomorphize them to get the point across, it would be like allowing your children to headlock one another to resolve their arguments over who gets access to the milk for their first bowl of cereal.
This pin continues for about 45 seconds after you turn the video on until Kenji finally breaks because Eiji has done nothing to exacerbate Kenji's rude behavior.
When Kenji does break his pin, the tension does not go down even remotely. He is still stiff and rude and Eiji is too scared to move - probably because he knows that Kenji's rudeness may escalate into aggression.
Kenji continues with his rude behavior by staring and elevating his head over Eiji's. Eiji continues to hug the wall - typical when dogs try to "disappear" and prove they are not threats in a situation. Eiji is using everything in his toolbox for his personality to appease Kenji and Kenji is not convinced. He finally stops this behavior after almost a MINUTE of being allowed to put pressure on Eiji.
Finally, when that breaks, Kenji goes around back of Eiji (who is still too nervous/anxious/fearful to move and hugging the wall to disappear) to put more pressure on him - though Kenji's tension lessens.
When Kenji ultimately walks away, his pressure on Eiji doesn't disappear. He merely stares at Eiji from further away, which is why I'm guessing Eiji will not move (with additional discomfort for, as you say, not being in the muzzle as often as Kenji is). Kenji is even REWARDED for his bullying by your wife, who I would guess was just trying to diffuse some tension with her pat - but Kenji doesn't know that. For all he knows, he's receiving affection for his behavior, reinforcing the likelihood that behavior may be repeated.
For the rest of the video, once you take Eiji's muzzle off, he looks more comfortable, but he is constantly looking to you for help and reassurance. Right afterward, Kenji is still shadowing him kind of rudely.
If these were my dogs, I would try to decrease the opportunities Kenji had to perform the behavior he exhibits in this video and try to encourage Eiji. Not to encourage future conflict, but at least encourage him to be confident and well-adjusted. He did everything right. Kenji was in the wrong, IMO, and should have been stopped.
Let's try to forget about the water. The water has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation that the dogs are having in this video. This conversation that the dogs are having is about who is above who in the pack. There are 3 mins left on the second half of this meeting. More will be revealed in that.
Plz lets stay civil. I am putting myself out there. I would like for you guys to be my friends. I will always do my best to be respectful.
Sure a down tail does mean fear, but neither dog is showing fear. When a dog is anxious or stressed, the tail will tighten and fly high to express this kind of tension. They are both showing anxiety during that "conversation", and I do hope you are doing whatever you can to avoid repeats of these kinds of situations. I would keep them separated, especially when unsupervised, and give them controlled meetings that are focused on positive experiences together. Throw the dominance and conversation stuff out the window, all that's doing for you is making your situation even worse.
My shiba hates hates hates new dogs in his house, when I added the Shikoku and the second husky he was all about wanting to tear them apart. Had I allowed him to "show his dominance", I would not be able to type this with all 4 dogs sleeping calmly together. I made a few mistakes when adding the Shikoku, she is just as hard headed as he is (some would call her a dominant type, but I just consider her b**chy) and for the first year I had to be super vigilant with their interactions together. If either growled, the other would growl back and if left unchecked would escalate into an argument or fight. We avoided these types of "conversations" as the more we allow them to practice it the more it would become a habit. Instead, they were kept separated and rotated until we felt that they were comfortable enough to be together.
During this time they did get to see each other and have no contact interactions during walks and outings, associating each other with these fun and desired experiences really helped improve their relationship with each other. Isn't and won't ever be 100%, there may be moments where they'll try to butt heads, but by preventing them from practicing bullying behaviors early on and redirecting their attention to something else before tensions rise, they are able to be loose in the house together without issues. Heck, they'll even play together when the mood hits them, though the Shikoku does prefer the wrestling play style of the huskies over the running play style of the shiba.
I also have to say kudos to you for your positive outlook on how you can help fix the situation. I do agree with you that there are a lot of harassmentish comments here to are blatantly attacks. But keep in mind, that people here are very passionate about dogs, so when they see that someone isn't taking care of their dogs in a correct way, they flip out and over react. So basically their hearts are in the right places, it's just their versions of expressing it may just plain old sound too condescending to even regard.
Point is, he is trying everything he can so the other dog fucks off, all that he hasnt tried in the videos is biting but it will come next
But no, really, i dont know what you mean when you say challenge, or submit, dominance, etc.
Like what is submitting? Is that rolling over to expose their belly? Is it letting a resource go? Is it avoiding situations?
What is a challenge? A hard stare, a growl, head over the shoulder, taking a resource?
This is why a lot of us do not believe in alpha/pack/dominance theory. It becomes an excuse, a scapegoat, and is either too vague or too complicated and read in to.
When working with dogs you have to go to the very bare bones of what is happening.
A looks at B. B reacts this way. A does this. C walks in. A butterfly floats by.
You are hoping by forcing these dangerous meetings to happen that the dogs will somehow work out the pecking order and have harmony. But in fact, you are just allowing a bully to dominate everyone in the household. Instead of correcting the first sign of aggression and posturing, you reward the bad behavior by allowing it to happen over and over again. Even submissive dogs have their limit when they feel they have no other choice but to defend themselves. And that's what your JA will do first chance he gets because he is living under constant threat and the humans are allowing it to happen.
My wife stood up and got out cuz I asked her to. I asked her to cuz tentions were high. My wife doesn't fear either dog. But she knew like me that we didn't want her to be a reason for a fight to happen. Meaning that just pulling on Kenji may have started an attack. Cuz thats what started the last fight was me pulling on Kenji at the wrong time. Like a butterfly floating by... This first meeting after a fight that happened a couple days ago was a tense one. I want to point out again that they are kept separate and have been kept separate since the disagreements began. This was a 15 minute meeting. They don't live in constant stress. Kenji does not act like this everytime he meets Eiji. These are special circumstances where they had a disagreement on the last meeting. That disagreement I was not prepared for. It was all we could do to keep Kenji from hurting Eiji. I winded up getting hurt cuz Eiji was biting Kenji while I was holding his head to my chest. My wife barly got Eiji out of the room. We do things differently now. Safer. Now Kenji is Muzzled cuz he causes puncture wounds during disagreements. The Muzzle gives us time to get them apart if something starts. Kenji don't even try to remove the Muzzle. That's good cuz he won't be able to actually bite while I pull him out.
After posting the videos and listening to the behaviorists I have decided to change up my plan. I was informed of a few mistakes that I have made.
I didn't see the praising of bad behavior. Now I do. We praised Kenji when we thought we was calming him. Or rewarding him for coming when called. I can see how he might see that as reward for dominance/bullying.
I also see the point being made about not allowing him to do those things. So I will be calling Kenji away when he starts to do those things. "Redirect" him.
I don't plan on leaving them alone together probably ever again. So Kenji won't get a chance to do it when I am not looking.
So I mentioned I was putting Kenji's muzzle on. I redirected Kenji three times. During the last visit. What happened was that they both layed down and took a nap as we watched TV. They ignored each other most the time.
@Omgtain I see your point. Yes your definitions are accurate and your point about it being vague is also accurate.
I want you all to know that I learned a few things today from posting this video. I appreciate your help. Thank you for following my thread. Thank you for speaking up. I can be hard headed at times. But I am a logical and analytical person. I see the logic in the responses I have gotten. So again Thank You for Taking the time to read through all of this thread. Thank you for helping me to see things I otherwise would not have seen.
The important thing is what you can do to fix that problem. The key points are generally for all forms of dog training and partnership is being a leader your dog can look towards for answers he does not understand. When you can truly master a bond with your partners things will be easier to piece together. But for now, don't try to rush it, you will probably take a few years to get it right.
Since they are young still, it might not be completely impossible. But just know that there's a good chance that they will never get along fully. They can eventually tolerate each others existence and know the rules of never fighting each other. But don't ever expect them to become good friends, because you will disappoint yourself in the end.
After someone helped me see some of the things I was doing and I began training for 2 more years, he was finally able to start accepting other dogs with careful introductions and management. I (obviously) got more dogs and even fostered frequently, introducing him to a strange dog every few months that I expected him to live with.
I think at this point, it MAY be possible to at least have your dogs ignore one another in the household. It'll be difficult and may take time because they have been allowed to perform these behaviors for this long and you guys will have to change what you're doing, but you have really excellent facilities from what I can see in the pictures and a safe babygate system.
This thread is very educational for anyone looking to add dogs to their household, too, so you've even helped the community and future owners who might look though these old threads.
Kenji really wants to be in the same room as me. So does Eiji and Mars. So for Kenji to ware the Muzzle with sharing a room with me being the reward. He also might be figuring out that he hasta leave the room if he is not nice. Sharing a room with me has become high value to him.
So far all they do is lay down and nap they are not having conversations cuz I won't let them.
Eventually I will need to do this with Mars. The only thing about Mars that I don't like is that he growls when ever Eiji gets to close. This affects Kenji in a negative way even if he is not in the same room.
They all three want to be in the same room. The fact that they might fight don't bother them. If Eiji is in the livingroom and Mars and Kenji are in the kitchen. They will whine to get in the livingroom because that's where I am. They don't understand why I am separating them. But they whine less and less each day. I do still rotate them.
Eiji wants to be with the other two. If I let him out the front he runs around to the slider and asks to get in the kitchen with them. Or if they are in their Kennels. He is out there laying with them. It's funny how they want to be with each other. But when they are they end up fighting.
Each time I call Kenji away I feel the leadership you talk about working. Kenji is not looking to me for guidance yet. But he does listen to me when i give the command.
Eiji will come lay at my feet now when Kenji is in the room. My wife pointed out yesterday that he is coming to me for protection. I now see that he is looking for me to protect him by controlling Kenji. Thanks for helping me see that.
Hopefully I will have money on Friday for a visit from the behaviorists I found. I will update again after her visit.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dogs-Mind-Understanding-reference/dp/0876055137
(disclaimer: I also don't like what he wrote about my breed in his Dog Encyclopedia.)