We live two blocks from the beach and go for a walk everynight. There are always tons of dogs on the beach. Miso has been around a lot of other dogs since he was a pup and never gets snippy or scared. I actually think most other dogs are scared of him because he is so friendly and runs right up to say hi! Im sure Sake will be the same way because we have started exposing her to new dogs (in our complex) and having Molly our Black Lab Buddy come over and hang out with us. Molly is a frequent house guest so we wanted to make sure Sake knew it was okay for her to be around the house. Neither of them seem to mind other dogs coming up to them.
A few nights ago we took Sake and Miso out and a golden and a dane came right up and both Sake and Miso greeted them nicely and played and jumped around with them for a few minutes.
There are a lot of dogs on my street, yesterday I met a sheltie puppy. She did really well with Jan, they're both usually very shy of other dogs but warmed up to each other right away. There aren't a lot of Nihon Ken where I live, but I did see someone with a shiba and a chihuahua at a park recently. And there was an American Akita at the pet store yesterday, Jan was terrified of his big size even though he was pretty laid back.
Oh! I forgot about this thread! This actually happened about 3 weeks ago, but I will recount for recounts sake:
I had taken Nola to the park by herself to work on some meet and greet skills (she gets a little too excited when meeting new people/dogs). While I was there I saw a woman with what looked like a giant Shiba and another mutt. She was walking up from the creek after her dogs and she saw Nola. She asked what kind of dog she was and I told her a Shiba Inu. And she got all excited, and said that her dog was also a Japanese dog, but could not for the life of her remember the breed (I know, weird, eh?). The dog was beautiful, it was an altered female, and as it turns out a Hokkaido. She was red, just like a red shiba, and very friendly towards Nola. She did not even correct Nola's jumping at her.
Unfortunately, the woman's phone rang, and I did not get to ask her any questions. I was so disappointed. I hope to run into her again to be able to get some information from her, such as where she got her dog, its personality, etc. This was the first time I had ever seen a Hokkaido, but hopefully not the last.
Romi I am so happy for you. That is HUGE progress.
Those of you with male shibas. What they say about them changing at 2 years old has been totally true in my experience. Moto has been very well socialized. However since his second birthday he is infinitely more territorial. Just FYI
Wow, that's awesome! I'm kinda shocked she wouldn't remember it was a Hokkaido though. There are only a handful of breeders outside of Japan and none in the US, so you have to jump through some pretty serious hoops if you want to get one.
Yep, I am not quite sure what her deal was, she seemed a bit older than me (maybe early 40's), so maybe her or her husband were in the military? But the dog was absolutely gorgeous! And I really do hope that I run into them again.
Thanks guys! I dont' know what got into me today. But for some reason I felt confident in Ninja and sort of knew that he was going to be a good boy. Usually, I just say "no, im still re-socializing them" and walk on so I don't have to deal with any potential conflicts. But the re-socialization with the new behaviorist is DEFINATELY paying off. I am so happy that I found her! Something interesting I forgot to mention...when we picked up Ninja and Portia from boarding...a man and his puppy spaniel came in. Ninja went straight to sniff the man's leg and didn't even pay attention to his puppy. Then the guy put out his hand and ninja touched it. It was really cool. The "Touch" technique is REALLY paying off for us. I have only been doing the "touch" inside our house with my friends or family...never tried it outside with strangers. But I guess he knows now...touch the strangers hand = tuna!
Dave - It may be possible that she came across one accidentally? -shrugs- I have a co-worker who loves my Shikoku. She's not ready for one right now, but she definitely wants to get one someday. Everytime I see her at work she is always asking me..."What is the name of the breed again?" lol. I guess, it takes some people awhile to memorize it. I swear I'm going to start testing her on this -laughs-.
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Romi - Yay for Ninja! lol, dogs can be such food-hoards sometimes, "I'm being good, now FEED me!"
It's a great to see how hard you've been working with him. I'm scared to think what might have happened to him if he went to somebody else -shudders-. Keep giving him that upper end!
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I took Lynx and Kei out for a walk together around the neigborhood (yesterday). I hadn't walked them together by myself in a a month or two <--- I usually have someone else tag along with me. I thought I had this "two dog walking" thing down -laughs-. Well Kei has grown a lot since then in strength...just walking the two out the door was troublesome! There is a trike next to it and Kei tipped it over and then my leashes got kinda intertwined, I had to untangle leash and dogs, lol. That was after I had to deal with the trike -sighs-. Hectic leaving the house, but then I started getting the hang of the two dog walking thing again. I need to do some more training with Kei though, he pulled a lot. I like my dogs to be puppies while they still are and end up teaching the proper way of walking while "going on walks" later (after a year of age) <-- I don't want to correct it, as pulling will be "okay" but on command only.
So, our lovely walk became quite a workout, we came across neighborhood dogs in their fenced in yards. Of course MY dogs have to go and "greet" the other dogs. I had a heck of a time with that. Lynx isn't the problem though...Kei still doesn't completely understand, or rather, listen to the "leave it" command <-- of course maybe it doesn't help that I taught him in Japanese and then I tell him in English, lol -sweat sweat-. Anyways, a quick redirection did the trick. So nothing too exciting that day, we just came across 7 random dogs.
Perhaps another day we will meet some dogs with their humans.
It sure does! It's really amazing because he is improving so fast! I don't really have much more to ask of him. He is accepting new dogs and people. He is still skittish - but if people appraoch in a non-threatening way, he will go up to sniff, take treats from them and touch their hand. I know he will never be the dog that goes up to a stranger to get love or go up to new dogs to play. But he is accepting them and able to be around them without totally freaking out...and thats good enough for me! I noticed he is much more relaxed and easier to control. If for some reason he gets in the heat of the moment - it is 10x easier to get his attention and re-direct him. While before he would be fixated and if we would try to interfere, he would lash out on us out of misdirected frustration. I'm so proud of him
Steve and I were at the farm yesterday, and our neighbors son and friend (both boys about 11-12 years) came by on a 4-wheeler. These boys are true rural MN kids, totally into trapping varmints, hunting anything that's legal, etc... (We won't get into the politics of that... it is what it is, and the state pays a bounty for certain animals that are so numerous and can do damage... when you are 11-12-13 years old, $10, $25, or $50 is a lot of money and well worth the fun of "off-roading on a 4-wheeler all day long!). Anyway my husband had asked them to stop by to discuss the location of their traps, emphasize their need to be sure traps were not so enticing as to be in a place where Josephine might encounter them even though on adjacent land, etc. The boys were in hip waders, camo jackets, etc. and as they parked their "chariot" and started coming up the steps Josephine went into full guard mode... Lots of barking, little rushes toward them in a threatening manner, full "back-off or I'll get you" attitude! My husband restrained her, and we are wondering how we will have this conversation -- her in the house and us outside, etc. We are thinking it must be the fragrance of the various wild varmints from their bait and traps that's setting her off and making her scared. Surprise, surprise: guess what solved the problem! In true MN-style the boys proceeded to take off their hip waders before entering the house. All of a sudden Josephine was all wags and kisses and loving all over them! Both boys have doggies at home, and they loved her, too! She was totally wanting to go out in the fields and woods with them after that, and didn't mind the waders when they went back on!
So we then had a high old time sitting in the farm kitchen discussing traps (live traps vs. the other kind), wild animals they've seen and where is the best place to put a trap, fishing and hunting places, the best weaponry to use, etc... (Ooops, there I go again! Never mind that part!) Anyway, so glad Josephine did not encounter any "tricks and treats" kids in costume this weekend!
Hey Romi.. (or anybody with any sort of advice...) was Ninja really shy towards strangers? I mightve misunderstood but it sounded like he used to be really shy? so I was just wondering how you fixed that... My second Shiba is REALLY shy and its sometimes frustrating to walk him in the city or take him to restaurants.. The other two are really good with people but Kobe just freaks out when people get near him.. And he wont listen to anything I say when he's scared... I thought he'd grow out of it like Kaya did but he's 10 months and still havent changed a bit... Any advice(s)?
Joey went through/is going through a fear stage that manifested itself similarly to how you describe Kobe's behavior; however, Joey seemed to be afraid of objects, not people or social situations. I wrote about his behavior and the strategy his behaviorist prescribed in this thread.
To summarize: With Shibas (and other more primitive breeds) it is not uncommon to see "shutting down" behavior when they pass their fear threshold. With certain breeds (like Labs) it is an effective strategy to "flood" them with the things they are afraid of. With Shibas, you want to do the opposite. You need to figure out what their triggers are and condition them to ignore what makes them scared, rather than force them to deal with it.
Let me know if you have any more questions. I hope that helps some.
Thanks for your input... i'll go and check out the thread..
Yeah Kobe's actually really scared of objects too.. He's just scared of everything, haha, so whenever he doesn't get scared? or when he goes up to people and let em pet him i praise him, give him treats, and try to make it a big deal.. i guess in a sense he's starting to come around, but yeah like you said I've been avoiding places/routes with a lot of people... I guess these things take time to so we'll se how this goes.. i just hope he gets better about it... it would make everything a lot easier...
Yes, Ninja was very shy as a puppy. But I got him when he was 4 months old. Did he just develop these issues - or were the issues there when you got him? This makes a difference because, if he just started developing fear issues - usually this is the fear stage. However, if he has had these issues since you got him, this will be more work. Fearful dogs take the longest to overcome things...the key is BABY steps, patience, and consistency.
Is he food motivated at all? Does he have an absolute favorite food? I would use whatever it is that he would die to get as the treat/reward. Usually smelly foods do the trick. I use canned tuna (in water) for Ninja's reward. He goes nuts for Tuna!
The basic key is to have him be able to take the treat and eat it while he's in that state of mind. That way he gets rewarded. If it's a normal treat or just kibble, he probably won't eat it in that state of mind because it's not that good or worth eating.
So very yummy treats and praise at the right time. Also - are you enrolled in any obedience classes? That would really help too.
Regarding strangers - you should tell them not to talk, look, or touch Kobe. Tell them to ignore him and let him approach them. Then maybe give the stranger a treat to give to Kobe - again no eye contact. This is a less threatening approach and it associates strangers with yummy treats. And if he allows them to pet him - tell them to pet his chest, not the top of his head.
There is a "touch" command I am using with Ninja that has worked great. Basically you stick out your hand and have him touch it - everytime he touches it, click and treat. After a week or however long it takes him to get it instantly - you can try using a family or friend's hand and have him touch it - click and treat...and slowly work your way up. Before Ninja would freak out if someone put their hand down for him to sniff - but now, ever since he learned "touch" he is so eager to touch the hand to get the treat - it doesn't matter who's hand it is!
Hope that helps - feel free to ask any other questions if anything I said didn't make sense!
Yeah Kobes been pretty shy since i got him.. I just thought he'd get it but since its starting to look like he won't I figured I need to do more to try and fix it...
He isn't as food motivated as the other 2 and when he's scared he just shuts down completely.. I havent tried tuna but I'll give it a try..
and the "touch" command, I'm guessing its with his nose...? Thats a good idea and it won't hurt for him to know another command...
I dont know about him approaching strangers.. My mom flew up and visited me last week and when she was over at my condo, Kobe just hid under the bed the whole time.. She came over twice and Kobe never showed his face... I just left him alone thining he'd come but but not a chance... maybe it had something to do with her coming to my place..
but once in a great while, he'll go up and sniff strangers or let people pet him and theres not a consistent pattern that I noticed.. Like it all being men, or adult, etc...
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience, I'll give them a try and let you know how it turns out...
Yesterday, when we were making our way back from our morning walk, Kuma and I met this woman in a car that pulled over and asked me if I had seen "a small black dog with whiskers, a Teckel." I said no and she drove off, looking worried and scanning the streets. We continued our walk and a few minutes later the Teckel shows up around the corner. I started to call him, to see if I could hold him and wait for the woman to make her way back. At first he came, then Kuma took a few steps forward and the little guy got afraid and ran off. I insisted and he finally conquered his initial fear and came to us. I noticed he didn't have a collar, picked him up and started walking back to see if we could find his owner which we eventually did. He was very calm during the whole time I was carrying him and he and Kuma even took a few sneak licks at each other. He was shy at first, but then he opened up in a flash. She came out of the car thanking me repeatedly and saying she was so worried about him. I told her "listen, the dog doesn't have a collar" and her answer I know, my kids don't like to see him with a collar". She must have seen the surprise on my face because she continued -"I know, I know..." -"Your kids should get used to it, and you probably should tell them it's best for all of you" -"yes, you're probably right" -"Is he micro chipped?" -"No...I've been meaning to do it..." -"If you're going to go around with your dog without a collar, you have to get him chipped. I would take care of it today!" -"Yes, you're right, I'll take care of it"
During all this I tried to keep it as light as I could and be as polite as I could, but although I was happy the little guy was back with his human I still felt worried that it has a very high potential to happen again.
Unfortunately Rui, it probably will happen again. If not that guy, then the next guy. A lot of people just don't "get it". I can't tell you how often dogs get reclaimed at the shelter and I think to myself "why are you even bothering, your just going to put them in the back yard again and they'll be back here in a week."
So, Kudos to you for getting the dog back to its owner and using it as a chance to educate. I hope it resonates with that guy!
Today we met lots of humans and a couple dogs. A store that I like in Atlanta had their official Grand Opening today with Paws Atlanta (a no-kill shelter) there doing adoptions. While we were waiting on the photographer to get there to do holiday photos, a lady comes in with a giant mutt. He was a very friendly guy (not a great thing when Jazz is around ) and was easily 100 lbs or more. His owner was complaining about being pulled all over the place. I asked her if she had done any training with him or tried a training lead. Her response was, I have one of those prong collars and it doesn't work too well and the dog isn't real bright, so training would be a waste of money.
Then she asks me how much I paid for my dog and could I give her the breeder's name - yeah, this was one of those times when I knew I was going to lie. I went into all the bad things to her response of "but they are soooo cute." I asked her about the dog she had with her and she told me he was two and she had gotten him when he was a puppy, but now he was just too big. That's when I told her that Jazz was a puppy and would grow to be over 100 lbs. She lost interest then.
The lady at the register was doing her best to keep from laughing. When the lady with the dog left, the one behind the counter said she'd never seen a 100 lb shiba, but she was glad that lady wasn't going to own one.
Just came back from our pre-dinner walk and we met a 9 year old Bernese Mountain Dog. Very cool dog and very patient while Kuma licked his face, tried to hump him and jumped all around him. Kuma just goes crazy about big dogs.
Speaking of large in charge shibas, I met a 64lb shiba a work. Her name is Hattie (Fatty Hattie) and she has congestive heart failure and COPD. Her parents drive truck cross country so she eats what they eat (greasy spoon take-out). She is 6-ish and now has severe OA and DJD in her elbows and hips. Suprisingly, her squishy fat face makes her look like a sumo so she is really cute (like a pot belly pig), except when she has the runs. That's not cute. Poor Hattie. One of the other Vet Techs decided to take her in and put her on a diet as the owners want her still, but she just can't fit in their truck cab anymore. She is huge next to Beebe (23#).
Comments
A few nights ago we took Sake and Miso out and a golden and a dane came right up and both Sake and Miso greeted them nicely and played and jumped around with them for a few minutes.
I had taken Nola to the park by herself to work on some meet and greet skills (she gets a little too excited when meeting new people/dogs). While I was there I saw a woman with what looked like a giant Shiba and another mutt. She was walking up from the creek after her dogs and she saw Nola. She asked what kind of dog she was and I told her a Shiba Inu. And she got all excited, and said that her dog was also a Japanese dog, but could not for the life of her remember the breed (I know, weird, eh?). The dog was beautiful, it was an altered female, and as it turns out a Hokkaido. She was red, just like a red shiba, and very friendly towards Nola. She did not even correct Nola's jumping at her.
Unfortunately, the woman's phone rang, and I did not get to ask her any questions. I was so disappointed. I hope to run into her again to be able to get some information from her, such as where she got her dog, its personality, etc. This was the first time I had ever seen a Hokkaido, but hopefully not the last.
Those of you with male shibas. What they say about them changing at 2 years old has been totally true in my experience. Moto has been very well socialized. However since his second birthday he is infinitely more territorial. Just FYI
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Romi - Yay for Ninja! lol, dogs can be such food-hoards sometimes, "I'm being good, now FEED me!"
It's a great to see how hard you've been working with him. I'm scared to think what might have happened to him if he went to somebody else -shudders-. Keep giving him that upper end!
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I took Lynx and Kei out for a walk together around the neigborhood (yesterday). I hadn't walked them together by myself in a a month or two <--- I usually have someone else tag along with me. I thought I had this "two dog walking" thing down -laughs-. Well Kei has grown a lot since then in strength...just walking the two out the door was troublesome! There is a trike next to it and Kei tipped it over and then my leashes got kinda intertwined, I had to untangle leash and dogs, lol. That was after I had to deal with the trike -sighs-. Hectic leaving the house, but then I started getting the hang of the two dog walking thing again. I need to do some more training with Kei though, he pulled a lot. I like my dogs to be puppies while they still are and end up teaching the proper way of walking while "going on walks" later (after a year of age) <-- I don't want to correct it, as pulling will be "okay" but on command only.
So, our lovely walk became quite a workout, we came across neighborhood dogs in their fenced in yards. Of course MY dogs have to go and "greet" the other dogs. I had a heck of a time with that. Lynx isn't the problem though...Kei still doesn't completely understand, or rather, listen to the "leave it" command <-- of course maybe it doesn't help that I taught him in Japanese and then I tell him in English, lol -sweat sweat-. Anyways, a quick redirection did the trick. So nothing too exciting that day, we just came across 7 random dogs.
Perhaps another day we will meet some dogs with their humans.
Romi-doesnt it feel good with all the awesome improvements he is making?
So we then had a high old time sitting in the farm kitchen discussing traps (live traps vs. the other kind), wild animals they've seen and where is the best place to put a trap, fishing and hunting places, the best weaponry to use, etc... (Ooops, there I go again! Never mind that part!) Anyway, so glad Josephine did not encounter any "tricks and treats" kids in costume this weekend!
(or anybody with any sort of advice...)
was Ninja really shy towards strangers? I mightve misunderstood but it sounded like he used to be really shy? so I was just wondering how you fixed that... My second Shiba is REALLY shy and its sometimes frustrating to walk him in the city or take him to restaurants.. The other two are really good with people but Kobe just freaks out when people get near him.. And he wont listen to anything I say when he's scared... I thought he'd grow out of it like Kaya did but he's 10 months and still havent changed a bit... Any advice(s)?
Joey went through/is going through a fear stage that manifested itself similarly to how you describe Kobe's behavior; however, Joey seemed to be afraid of objects, not people or social situations. I wrote about his behavior and the strategy his behaviorist prescribed in this thread.
To summarize: With Shibas (and other more primitive breeds) it is not uncommon to see "shutting down" behavior when they pass their fear threshold. With certain breeds (like Labs) it is an effective strategy to "flood" them with the things they are afraid of. With Shibas, you want to do the opposite. You need to figure out what their triggers are and condition them to ignore what makes them scared, rather than force them to deal with it.
Let me know if you have any more questions. I hope that helps some.
Yeah Kobe's actually really scared of objects too.. He's just scared of everything, haha, so whenever he doesn't get scared? or when he goes up to people and let em pet him i praise him, give him treats, and try to make it a big deal.. i guess in a sense he's starting to come around, but yeah like you said I've been avoiding places/routes with a lot of people... I guess these things take time to so we'll se how this goes.. i just hope he gets better about it... it would make everything a lot easier...
Yes, Ninja was very shy as a puppy. But I got him when he was 4 months old. Did he just develop these issues - or were the issues there when you got him? This makes a difference because, if he just started developing fear issues - usually this is the fear stage. However, if he has had these issues since you got him, this will be more work. Fearful dogs take the longest to overcome things...the key is BABY steps, patience, and consistency.
Is he food motivated at all? Does he have an absolute favorite food? I would use whatever it is that he would die to get as the treat/reward. Usually smelly foods do the trick. I use canned tuna (in water) for Ninja's reward. He goes nuts for Tuna!
The basic key is to have him be able to take the treat and eat it while he's in that state of mind. That way he gets rewarded. If it's a normal treat or just kibble, he probably won't eat it in that state of mind because it's not that good or worth eating.
So very yummy treats and praise at the right time. Also - are you enrolled in any obedience classes? That would really help too.
Regarding strangers - you should tell them not to talk, look, or touch Kobe. Tell them to ignore him and let him approach them. Then maybe give the stranger a treat to give to Kobe - again no eye contact. This is a less threatening approach and it associates strangers with yummy treats. And if he allows them to pet him - tell them to pet his chest, not the top of his head.
There is a "touch" command I am using with Ninja that has worked great. Basically you stick out your hand and have him touch it - everytime he touches it, click and treat. After a week or however long it takes him to get it instantly - you can try using a family or friend's hand and have him touch it - click and treat...and slowly work your way up. Before Ninja would freak out if someone put their hand down for him to sniff - but now, ever since he learned "touch" he is so eager to touch the hand to get the treat - it doesn't matter who's hand it is!
Hope that helps - feel free to ask any other questions if anything I said didn't make sense!
Yeah Kobes been pretty shy since i got him.. I just thought he'd get it but since its starting to look like he won't I figured I need to do more to try and fix it...
He isn't as food motivated as the other 2 and when he's scared he just shuts down completely.. I havent tried tuna but I'll give it a try..
and the "touch" command, I'm guessing its with his nose...? Thats a good idea and it won't hurt for him to know another command...
I dont know about him approaching strangers.. My mom flew up and visited me last week and when she was over at my condo, Kobe just hid under the bed the whole time.. She came over twice and Kobe never showed his face... I just left him alone thining he'd come but but not a chance... maybe it had something to do with her coming to my place..
but once in a great while, he'll go up and sniff strangers or let people pet him and theres not a consistent pattern that I noticed.. Like it all being men, or adult, etc...
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience, I'll give them a try and let you know how it turns out...
We continued our walk and a few minutes later the Teckel shows up around the corner. I started to call him, to see if I could hold him and wait for the woman to make her way back. At first he came, then Kuma took a few steps forward and the little guy got afraid and ran off. I insisted and he finally conquered his initial fear and came to us. I noticed he didn't have a collar, picked him up and started walking back to see if we could find his owner which we eventually did. He was very calm during the whole time I was carrying him and he and Kuma even took a few sneak licks at each other. He was shy at first, but then he opened up in a flash.
She came out of the car thanking me repeatedly and saying she was so worried about him. I told her "listen, the dog doesn't have a collar" and her answer I know, my kids don't like to see him with a collar". She must have seen the surprise on my face because she continued
-"I know, I know..."
-"Your kids should get used to it, and you probably should tell them it's best for all of you"
-"yes, you're probably right"
-"Is he micro chipped?"
-"No...I've been meaning to do it..."
-"If you're going to go around with your dog without a collar, you have to get him chipped. I would take care of it today!"
-"Yes, you're right, I'll take care of it"
During all this I tried to keep it as light as I could and be as polite as I could, but although I was happy the little guy was back with his human I still felt worried that it has a very high potential to happen again.
So, Kudos to you for getting the dog back to its owner and using it as a chance to educate. I hope it resonates with that guy!
Then she asks me how much I paid for my dog and could I give her the breeder's name - yeah, this was one of those times when I knew I was going to lie. I went into all the bad things to her response of "but they are soooo cute." I asked her about the dog she had with her and she told me he was two and she had gotten him when he was a puppy, but now he was just too big. That's when I told her that Jazz was a puppy and would grow to be over 100 lbs. She lost interest then.
The lady at the register was doing her best to keep from laughing. When the lady with the dog left, the one behind the counter said she'd never seen a 100 lb shiba, but she was glad that lady wasn't going to own one.
I think a 100lbs Shiba might be enough to wreak havoc in a small city! :-P
LOL I'm kinda picturing "Stitch" from "Lilo and Stitch"! HAHAHA
Poor 64lb Shiba.
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