shikokus in shelter (in japan) March 22nd
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    I don't know if any1 will interested in coming all the way to Japan to adopt these Shikokus, but i thought ill post this up anyways.
    Both of them have been in the shelter for awhile now, I've been helping this shelter out, really wish i could take 1 of them in but there's a limit imposed on overseas base housing as to how many dogs i can have, and I'm at maximum capacity now.

    http://www.arkbark.net/rehoming/one.cgi?id=598
    http://www.arkbark.net/rehoming/one.cgi?id=647

    Its not easy to get a Shikoku, yet these 2 precious have been sitting in the shelter for awhile now.





    ***********************************************************************************************

    So i just received an email from ARk, and this is what it says....

    Dear Ling-san

    Thank you for your email again.

    However, there is something tricky about the two Shikoku's. They were originally rescued from Osaka prefectural kennel, or dog termination plant, and the prefectural administration is not very willing to support private organizations like ARK. They set a unreasonable rule such as the dogs taken from Osaka prefectural kennel should not be adopted by people who live outside Osaka prefecture. In addition, Osaka city area and Sakai city area should be excluded, too. This is really a ridiculous rule because the two cities are the population center of Osaka prefecture. Naturally, we have difficulty in looking for the new family for Shikokus owing to this restriction.

    I am sorry to disappoint you but this is something we have to tell you. Japanese administration can be very rigid and unreasonable at times, unfortunately. But if the person is an Osaka prefecture resident, that person can become a candidate of the dog's new owner.

    Best wishes,
    Sakae Kishida
    ARK OFFICE


    I dont know why theres such an unreasonable, stupid & ridiculous **** rule.
    I just wrote ARK back, hopefully there is something i can do to get these dogs out if Gen or some1 is willing to take them.
    Be it writing to the prefectural administration, or paying them a visit to work things out.
    I really really hope to get the poor shikokus out.
  • ZinjaZinja
    Posts: 1033
    Aww, the first Shika looks beautiful!

    The second Shika/mix looks awesome and has a wonderful personality... Doesn't pull on leash and resource guarding. I wish they can ship her to me.

    Not quite sure why they both have been in the shelter for about a year.
    -Joe
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    They are precious, aren't they?!
    I'm not sure why they have been there for so long either. A possible reason is that a lot of japanese ppl really dnt know abt the Shikokus.
    Each time I mentioned them to friends/ students, 1st response is usually "tosa ken?"
    When I further explained, 7 out of 10 didn't know what I was talking about, I'll show a picture n they will tell me it's the 1st time they hv seen a Shikoku.
    Maybe it's just ppl arnd my area living in the city, I'm not sure
    But it feels like the precious shikokus r just not very well known here
    Please contact the shelter abt overseas adoption if ure interested, they might b able to work something out!
    I really hope these shikokus find a warm loving forever hm!!!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • Someone should call Shigeru
    Fuzzy Gang Signature
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    That's sad, they are cute. :o(
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    wow. thats tragic. Who's calling TheWalrus!!!!
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
    shibas, beagles & more!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    Where are they located? I may beable to take one of them or both. Please let me know ASAP!!!!Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • 595 Noma Ohara, Nose-cho, Toyono-gun, Osaka-fu 563-0131 JAPAN

    http://www.arkbark.net/e/index.htm
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    oh, poor babies, I'd so take them if I could...I hope they get a home, double nice if Gen(shishiinu) gets them, than we could have spammage.
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    Gen,
    yup, they are located in the pretty countryside area of osaka, but theres directions/map on the site. i know they have an adoption center in Tokyo too.
    give them a call!!!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1624
    Hadn't looked at the Ark site in a while, sad that these pups have been there so long. Wish I had seen this sooner!

    Would be great if it works out for Gen to take them. If not, I can spread the word around over here.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    Would be great if you could help spread the word if Gen cant take them.
    you live in Chiba pref Shigeru?
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2634
    wow...I would have never thought a Shika would show up in a shelter...that is very sad.
    Romi - Portia (Boxer), Ninja (Shiba), Wink (Norrbottenspets)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1624
    Yup, Chiba. Where are you at?
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    i live in kanagawa, in yokohama actually, not toooo far from you.
    would love to see your kai sometime! :)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    I called my dad about the dogs and he may be getting them and holding them for me until I can arrange transport to US. The only problem is getting them from Osaka to Kangawa. If I can arrange them to get transported here would anyone be willing to take one of the dogs?Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2634
    Gen, depending on temperment of the females, I could possibly foster one until a suitable homes is found. I have a female boxer and a male shiba. My male shiba is reactive towards dogs so a meet n greet would first need to happen to see how they would interact. But if you have other people volunteering, keep them in mind first. I am just letting you know as a "last resort" type of thing...since I am also pretty local to you (OC).
    Romi - Portia (Boxer), Ninja (Shiba), Wink (Norrbottenspets)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    oh man.. what I would do for one of these dogs!
    but I'm on the east coast, otherwise I too would be more than willing to foster.
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
    shibas, beagles & more!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • StrangerStranger
    Posts: 49
    I would be very interested, but I would like to know more about how this would work--it sounds like a very long, stressful trip for them. Flying here from Japan was certainly stressful for me, and I got to sit in a warm cabin with TV and snacks! Is this really better for them than staying in Japan?

    I have been planning on adopting a dog as soon as I got my new home in order ( I recently started a new job, and got a new place). I never seriously considered a Shikoku, since there are (fortunately for them) no Shikokus to adopt in the US, as they are so rare here, but I have always been fascinated by them--they are so beautiful, and they have a wonderful reputation.

    p.s., I am on the East Coast as well (In New York City)
    Post edited by Stranger at 2009-03-09 17:11:45
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    Posts: 4021
    I was thinking the same thing Jen! I would totally take one in if they could get to the east coast, my kids are dying for a new buddy...
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4546
    If they can come to the east coast, we may be able to take one of them (depending on personalities). Or at least foster both until they found a home.

    Best of luck to these two!
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • RyuRyu
    Posts: 1490
    I am dying for these two.... I hope they find a home soon! Even better with one of our forum members ;)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    Oh, I would so love one, but I am east coast as well...Would it be possible to have them fostered until August, and then have someone bring them to the meet up in Wisconsin. I know that some of you west coasters might be going, maybe one of you can hitch a ride for one of the shikas to there so that way an east coaster that is going, or knows someone that is going, to get a chance at these pups.
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    Gen - There is always room here for a Shikoku that needs a home. If any of the other forum members can't take them, and you need to find a home for them, please know they can always live here.

    ----
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    Thanx to everyone for helping these Shikoku - you guys are great!

    This is the type of collaboration and support that will keep this breed out of mills and shelters in the US.

    ----
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    Posts: 4021
    Oh Beth what a great idea...if someone can foster until August and bring them to the WI meetup, I will adopt one!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    Gen,
    just got an update from ARK.
    the prefectural administration wont let the dogs be adopted out of the prefecture. No real reason given, besides the fact that the prefectural admin doesn't want to deal with other prefectures' rules etc. They wont even let people in Osaka city/sakai city take the dogs, basically robbing the dogs' chance since those 2 cities are the most populated in the pref.

    so right now, they told me 1 possible thing i could do for these dogs is to write/petition to the governors office. no english so i will have to ask some1 to do it, or if Gen can do it?

    What do you guys think? I think we should get it a shot if some1 can really take the dogs.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2634
    My parents are fluent in Japanese. I can ask my mom to send you an email (in japanese) that you can forward or print out. Just let me know what you want it to say and i'll have her translate it.
    Romi - Portia (Boxer), Ninja (Shiba), Wink (Norrbottenspets)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    Thanks Romi :)

    This is the response i got from ARK..
    ******************************************************
    "One possible approach may be to complain directly to Osaka prefectural governor. The governor is the president of the prefecture, who has very strong political power. And Mr. Hashimoto, Osaka Prefectural governor, is regarded as really a franc and straight-forward man although he can be very strict and aggressive when he doesn't like something. If you make an email or letter of petition to the governor's room, something may change. I don't think he is a dog lover but he is a kind of realist who does not permit any unreasonable things. I dare not push you to do it, but if you are really serious on this matter, perhaps you can contact the governor.

    On Osaka Prefecture's official website, there is a section named "Chiji-shitsu (Governor's room)", where anybody can email a petition directly to Mr. Hashimoto (although I guess prefectural office staff will have a look at the messages first, and they may not report every single message to the governor). The problem is, all the instructions and explanations are written in Japanese in that petition column. There's no English column for this direct petition, as far as I know of. So you probably need a Japanese assistant who can help you send an email petition to the governor. And I hear we can also use FAX to make a petition."

    *****************************************************


    Im not sure exactly what to put in the letter, besides asking the governor to give these dogs a chance to find a home they deserve.
    Pointing out the fact how shikokus are national monuments of Japan, and there are so few left in Japan, and that they should deserve a chance to find a forever home to live out the rest of their lives. Also, quite a no. of people on here are already interested in taking them, hopefully some arrangements can be made.
    right now i cant think of what else to add... any input from others?
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    Maybe,in a business sense, mention how the dogs, if left un-adopted, are taking up space and money that could be used for other, more "popular" dogs and broadening their adoptability can help humanely free up the space. I know it sounds a little cold, but to a person that may not care for dogs, or have little attachment to these dogs, it may help in the persuasion.
    image
    Post edited by Calia at 2009-03-09 23:13:08
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 3432
    Oh wow, I love this forum.

    If the dogs get the ok to leave, do you guys (whoever will be coordinating this) need financial help? We don't have much to offer but we have something if it's needed.
    -Rina
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    We could probably donate to the forum and request that it goes to helping these dogs, if it works out
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • SangmortSangmort
    Posts: 5510
    Thanks for everyone's dedication to this, it's really touching. I hope these pups find a way out of the shelters there, they're both stunning & it's a shame they're there to begin with <3 ~<div class="UserSignature">- Osy ~
    Kismet Collars
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    My dad is a council man for the Kanagwa prefecture and I can write a letter to the Osaka prefectual governor. Riki came from Japan on a plane and he was just fine. I'm sure its not comfortable but its better then sitting in a shelter.
    I guess the one other issue would be funding this "operation". With 3 kids, expensive hobbies, and a hunry pack of hunting dogs, I'm gonna have to calculate what its going to take to get these dogs. I will call some shipping companies and find out what is involved in transporting dogs. I can get them from Japan in august but between now and then I have to convince my dad to care for them.
    Not a 100% but I'm gonna do my best to figure out a plan and rescue these dogs.Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 3432
    Well if it's more than $1400/dog then it's cheaper to have 2 people fly to Japan and bring them back as baggage. If I remember correctly, it was going to cost about $2-3k to ship my cat to/from Japan so someone going along might be the best course of action. If it's not till August I know we'll be able to help out financially.
    -Rina
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lymuralymura
    Posts: 116
    I'd be more than happy to donate what I can.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    Thanks Gen, i hope we'll get a positive response from the Osaka governor.
    I will be willing to help fund this "operation", and please let me know if you need any other help.
    I can figure out something to watch them til Aug if your dad cant...im in kanagawa too. let me know what i can do or if any help is needed.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1624
    So I guess this must be some sort of agreement ARK has with the local authorities? Sounds pretty wacky to me, as none of the rescues I work with over here have that sort of limitation on their activities.

    As with all bureaucratic red tape, there's usually some loophole to be found. I have a lot of friends down in the Kansai area, so if I could get some sort of clarification on the exact 'rules' for adoption, I may be able to help fish them out and get them sent up here.

    Guess it'll probably be faster if I just whip up an email to ARK directly and ask about their re-homing policies. I re-read their website policy, and found nothing in there about needing to reside in the local area.

    Gen, how much did it cost you to ship Riki over there? I guess I have mixed feelings about shipping dogs halfway around the world to new homes. Someone suggested once that there might be more interest in some Akitas we were looking to re-home, over in the States. While this is probably true, I kind of cringe at all the time and finances that would go into the shipping.

    Hope we can figure something out for these pups, fingers crossed :)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3449
    I would be glad to surrender my space for a shikoku in need.Hokusei Kashinoki Hokkaido and Shiba Inu
    masakadoshiba@hotmail.com
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    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    Shigeru san no cost when I brought Riki over. He was part of my luggage. One thing I did was to physically make sure he was on board withme. When I transfered a flight from LA to SD the air line company was about to put him on another flight but I made them put Riki in the passenger area of the plane. But being post 911 I'm not sure how that will work.

    My only thing is I'm still trying to get Yuki over here and so I probably can only take one of those dogs. Any one up for a road (flight) trip to Japan???

    Thanks every one I will keep people posted......I hope this works out.Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    I've been hearing changes in air flight rules, due to gas issues. I know that around here, they were starting to charge for carry-on luggage and per weight(or bag) of luggage in cargo.
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • StrangerStranger
    Posts: 49
    I don't disagree that it is possible for dogs to fly across the pacific safely (most of the time) I just wondered if that was the best thing for *these* dogs. It is a lot of trouble for them and their supporting humans as well as considerable expense. I don't know what the dog adoption situation in Japan is like, maybe it is so difficult for the native dog breeds that their best chance is to emigrate? In that case it might be worth it. It's just that there is a little more to this than just springing the pooches from the clutches of some cranky bureaucrats and arranging air transport.

    To enter the US, dogs need at least a certificate of a rabies vaccination dated at least 30 days prior to entry, otherwise they may be quarantined at the shippers expense for up to 30 days. I don't know whether the certificate has to be in English or not yet, that seems a little unclear: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dq/animal/dogs.htm Also see: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/animals/animal_import/animal_imports_pets.shtml

    According to the AKC, unaccompanied dogs entering the US need to be handled by a "registered/licensed shipping/cargo/freight agent or broker" as of new US federal regulations put into place just last February: http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3749

    Finally, many US states have different rules that must be followed, depending on where the dogs enter the country: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/animals/animal_import/animal_imports_states.shtml

    Each airline seems to have slightly different rules about what kind of crate, supplies, instructions, health certificates etc are required. The AKC has a list of links to different airlines' policy pages: http://www.akc.org/pdfs/canine_legislation/airline_chart.pdf In general, they seem to require a large, metal crate with ventilation on all sides (I guess that is in case the crate gets pushed up against another piece of cargo).

    Prices seem to vary by airline and weight, but are often not very clearly described. American Airlines has a price sheet, however: https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/rates/i_pps_rates.pdf;jsessionid=EVJJZYYQ2CZMQCSOQMXCFEY
    This map explains what the US regional codes used in the price sheet are: https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/rates/PPS_zonemap.pdf;jsessionid=EVJJZYYQ2CZMQCSOQMXCFEY

    According to the price sheet, if the two dogs are under 20 kg (about 44 lbs) they would each cost 38,100 yen or less (or about $388) to fly to most parts of the US from Narita at the current exchange rate. The Southeastern US is more, for some reason.

    $388 is not really too bad, but the costs for the paperwork, veterinary certificates, agent fees, boarding the dogs during any waiting periods, fancy metal crate, etc, could mount up fast. Also, this means a lot of legwork for lingmorton or for shishiinu's dad, or whoever was handling things on the Japan end.

    I would have no problem paying $388 airfare for one dog if I were going to adopt it, but I am a little concerned about all the other costs or potential complications. I don't mean to be a pain, I just like to look at worst case scenarios before committing myself to a situation that could compromise the safety and happiness of other creatures (humans, dogs or whatever.)
    Post edited by Stranger at 2009-03-10 14:16:29
  • KenshiKenshi
    Posts: 374
    I have a feeling that what led these dogs to that kill shelter is that they were declared as "dangerous" or something. Who knows why that happened; it probably doesn't matter, at this point it is likely impossible to remove that stamp of "dangerous" since somebody would have to be punished for doing their job.

    My thinking is that Osaka-fu can't let the dogs be adopted outside of its borders, because then it would be allowing "dangerous" dogs out, and there is likely some kind of law against that. Then there is probably a law on the books in Osaka-shi and Sakai-shi saying, no "dangerous" dogs are allowed here.

    The question is, really, whether there is a law against allowing "dangerous" dogs outside of the country. There may not be such a thing. However, it boils down to the dogs needing somebody to stamp them as okay for export. How do we get that stamp?

    I.e.: How do we get these dogs into a legal status where they are exportable? That's a question for anybody fluent in Japanese.

    About writing a letter to the governor of Osaka-fu, I recommend that you remind him that the Shikoku is a Natural Treasure / Living Monument of Japan and has been since 1938. If these dogs are considered dangerous in Japan, then why not allow us Americans to take them away. We have lots of room in America and most of us have big yards where the dogs can run. Also, we are a very dog-oriented culture and we keep dangerous dogs like these in our homes all the time....after a few weeks of exposure to the soft, leisurely American style of living these dogs will become as tame as kittens...we'll feed them hamburgers and drive them around in SUVs and soon they'll be too big to move very fast. Two specimens of a Living Monument will be saved from destruction, two dangerous dogs will be permanently off the streets, and nobody will have to lose any face.

    Also, I would donate a couple of bucks to any collection fund that were set up to bring these dogs over here, though I think the person who adopts them should bear most of the cost since they'll be your dogs and probably a lot of work. :)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • KenshiKenshi
    Posts: 374
    Stranger, the Japanese are not dog people - they like small, toy-sized dogs unless they are Serious About Dogs, and most Japanese dog geeks go after western breeds anyway. The Japanese breeds we love on these forums, with the exception of the ubitquitous Shiba Inu, have a reputation of being rough hunting dogs. To most Japanese people that means they are "dangerous breeds," though even the Japanese that are more enlightened on the topic realize that they require a lot of work and a lot of attention. Since most Japanese live a lifestyle that is most similar to that of a Manhattan resident and don't have a lot of their own space, finding a local owner for two dogs like this will be a very difficult task. I bet you these two dogs aren't hunting dogs, which might mean a hunter would think they'd be too tough to train to be of any use.

    Shipping a dog seems to be a lot of stress for them, but there are many stories of it on this forum, and it looks like they pretty much get over it and get on with their lives. Also, I haven't seen any verifiable horror stories.

    In general, my feeling is that extracting these dogs from Japan will be the absolute best thing for them. Or any similar dog in their situation.

    In fact, I would go so far as to say that we Gaijin lovers of Japanese dogs should consider forming a group for rescuing nihonken from Japan. If we could establish a relationship of some kind with organizations like ARK in Japan and do whatever we need to do to get a process for extradicting Japan's unwanted Shikoku, Kishi, Kai, Akita, etc.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    Be careful with that thought, Kenshi, some people will complain with that sort of dealing since we have so many shelter dogs in the US as is. I know plenty of people who complain when other try to rescue a dog from another state, much less another country. With that said, I'd love to see those shikas come over here, just for the sake that there are plenty of people on this forum alone who really wanted this breed, and desire the added bonus of rescuing one. Heck, the minute this post was made, they would have already had a home with a forum member, if it weren't for this rule.
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • KenshiKenshi
    Posts: 374
    We'd have to be aggressive about that in our PR. But I expect existing breed-specific rescue organizations face similar problems. In the end, it'll still be quite pricey to do - though I imagine it will be cheaper than getting a puppy from O Ikon or Akashima. So you've got private individuals spending private funds to rescue a dog from Japan.

    The bigger concern is what is basically the problem right here - how do we convince the Japanese to let us take their stray National Treasures?
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    Posts: 4021
    Of course I would donate to bringing these two over if it's possible.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2634
    Here is what i think would work best. Since there are many people offering to take these dogs in ...I think that they should pay for all the expenses...just like if they were going to import a dog from a breeder. Forum members can donate money to these people to help out with the costs too. So, for anyone who is seriously interested, please step up and let us know (Kristin, Jen, Stranger, Casey, Beth?). Maybe the people living in Japan or have connects in Japan can get these dogs out of the shelter and transport them to the airport. From there, the dog(s) would be shipped directly to the person. This way, they will not have to be shipped to CA and then shipped/transported again. Once someone steps up, we can get a letter out and hope for approval - if we get approved for the adoption and transporting of the dog, we're good to go.

    Is it possible for anyone in Japan to go visit these dogs and report back their personalities? This will be a big risk for any potential adopter as with importing any dog...but, I see more risk here, since these dogs are shelter dogs. There is not much background on these dogs and you will not be able to meet them before you make your decision.
    Romi - Portia (Boxer), Ninja (Shiba), Wink (Norrbottenspets)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    I would be willing to foster, going through heartworm with Henson right now I'm not sure how much more of an expense I could handle/contribute - but I am serious to want to help in any way possible.

    Shipping these dogs to the east coast would be rough on them, though, wouldn't it? Much longer than from Japan to the west coast, right?
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
    shibas, beagles & more!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    Maybe, if Shishiinu's father is caring for them until they could be brought here, he could give a basic assumption to their personalities. From what I gather, Shishiinu's father has a dog or two, so he could see how dog reactive these shikas are at least.

    I would love to have one, but I'm actually in the process of getting a pups through Peggy from a 2010 or later litter, so I feel that it would be best to give this opportunity to someone else. But, if there is anything I could do to help (donation, transport), don't hesitate to ask. I'll be going to the Wisconsin Meet up, so if someone wants one and can't go, I'd be happy to bring one to them.
    image
    Post edited by Calia at 2009-03-10 19:59:10
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    Plus, one may be dog reactive and the other is timid, according to the descriptions, so they may not fair well in a house with 2 other dogs and a cat
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    Plus, one may be dog reactive and the other is timid, according to the descriptions, so they may not fair well in a house with 2 other dogs and a cat
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    Well, for this topic, a lot has gone on today while I was traveling...

    Jen and I would be willing to donate some $ to help these dogs.

    I do find it kinda strange that we (a group of enthusiasts in AMERICA) are the ones that may be rescuing these dogs. You would think they would be rescued in Japan, I mean the dogs are rare over there too.

    This makes me think Kenshi is on to something - we may not be getting the full story. It would be really bad to rescue these dogs, bring them over here, and then find they are abused and too reactive to live comfortable in a forum members home - then what?

    So, my word of caution is this: If you are REALLY interested in saving these dogs, and want to give them a home, please make sure you are 100% prepared to take on a dog that could potentially be a serious issue.

    Having said all that, if it does cost around $400 to ship one, add some extra cost for a crate and etc... So lets say it's $800. That's not a bad price really. If someone is looking to get a Shikoku, and is willing to rescue one of these, the cost would be less than buying from a kennel in North America.

    Also, as I said before, they can always live here with us (Jen and I have the experience to handle them). So if they where brought over and found to be a "bad fit", please know that they can come here - please don't let them end up in a shelter in America - I would really hope that everyone does everything they can to not have that be the case.

    Jen and I could also help with fostering them, if needed.

    What Jen and I can't do is fly to Japan or take any long road trips right now, we have lots of that already planned for this year.

    PS: I really think the best thing for these dogs would be to find them a home in Japan. If we could all work to get them out of that shelter and prefecture and into the hands of someone like Shigeru (who knows the rescue system well over there), then we will be giving these dogs the shot at a happy life they deserve... my point is, they don't have to come all the way to America to give them a good home.

    ----
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 3432
    The only way we could help is financially and even then, it wont even start to cover the cost of exporting them.

    If only my grandma was younger, I know she'd be willing to take a dog in. But I doubt they would want a 75 year old lady from Hiroshima taking in a young dog lol.
    -Rina
    Post edited by okiron at 2009-03-10 21:37:16
  • KenshiKenshi
    Posts: 374
    Hiroshima is no can do, that's outside of Osaka-fu. :)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 3432
    I'm aware of that Cliff but thank you for clarifying.
    -Rina
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    what everyone said makes perfect sense.
    i am most likely to make a day trip down to ARK at the end of this month, so i can visit them and see how their temperament is like, or if Gen or her dad is going to visit them, or Shigeru.
    Not sure what the outcome will be after writing to the governors office, but if the dogs are allowed to leave the prefecture, may make things a little easier for adoption, i can try to spread the word around the bases here too.
    But if no1 is willing to take them and they are allowed to leave the country, its nice to know there are potential homes here on the forum.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • Ling- is it possible to send them space-a? Alone or with someone traveling back to the states?
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • StrangerStranger
    Posts: 49
    I look forward to your report--the ARK website gives me the impression they are not trying to trick anyone into taking traumatically messed up dogs--they mention a number of medium-minor issues, but nothing really bad. Independent confirmation is a big help though, especially since the breed itself will be somewhat unfamiliar territory for most in the US. Probably ones first Shikoku should not be one suffering from a major personality disorder, unless you are a pro, or the near equivalent.
    Post edited by Stranger at 2009-03-11 00:02:50
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    i honestly do not think they will be allowed on space-a. tried calling the terminal here today but seems like they are very busy, so i emailed them.
    if they can travel space-a, i will be able to take them to the states to whoever is able to take them in.
    im no pro when it comes to dog behavior/personality, but i think i can still judge if the dog has any major issues, i dont know if any other forum members in japan are interested in making the trip down to Osaka, but i am pretty much going there for sure at the end of this month, any1 interested to visit together let me know.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • andreamg4andreamg4
    Posts: 136
    I am willing to help anyway I can. (except with taking them in or $$ unfortunately). I live in CA so if anyone needs west coast airport pick up and transport I'm available. I am also willing to travel or fly out if needed, but unfortunately do not have the extra $$ to do so. As of the end of this month I will be without a job and have a TON of free time until June 22nd when I start full time school.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • Ling- I looked it up and apparently you have to be PCSing, not just traveling. To bad cause it would only cost $85. Know anyone leaving? lol.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • andreamg4andreamg4
    Posts: 136
    curious- sorry if this is a silly ?- but what is PCSing?
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    yeah thats what i figured, unfortunately i dont know any1 leaving :(
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • No, it is not silly Andrea, sorry, it's military lingo, Permanent Change of Station-when a military member is moving from one base to another.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 3432
    My friend in Okinawa might know someone leaving. I'd ask her if we had a time span in mind of when this all might happen if it is allowed to happen to begin with.
    -Rina
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    Posts: 4021
    Like I said before, if these dogs can coexist or be rehabed to coexist with Miso and Sake I would be willing to adopt one. $$ isn't really an issue, it's making them comfortable and getting them here and making sure they will be okay with two crazy shibas! I have trained food/toy agressive huskies in the past so I have some experience, but not with dog reactiveness so if I did take one it I would need A LOT of forum help, but I know you guys would always be there for me!
    Post edited by KFontaine04 at 2009-03-11 15:05:40
  • StrangerStranger
    Posts: 49
    I notice they also have what they believe is a Kishu mix : http://www.arkbark.net/rehoming/one.cgi?id=796. What a nice little (for now) guy!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    And a Kai?
    http://www.arkbark.net/rehoming/one.cgi?id=626

    Man. I could bring all those dogs home..
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
    shibas, beagles & more!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    Ok so getting the dogs out of Osaka is no problem. Got that secured now its logistics, my dad is unable to care for them until I get there this summer. Still checking to see about a shipper. I got the vet paper work covered through my dads good friend. I wish I could go right now, I have tons of vacation time to use but I'm swamped at work and I already put in for this summer.

    Kenshi: In japan the city shelters do not care if the dogs is good or not. They will kill most dogs if they are not adopted or rescued. They dont care about their behavior. I'm sure ARK will not rescue dangerous dogs and put them up for adoption.Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • KenshiKenshi
    Posts: 374
    Gen, I speculated that these dogs may have been considered "dangerous" because ARK says the prefecture doesn't want them adopted out, and doesn't want them adopted in Osaka-shi or Sakai-shi. I also mildly put forth the notion that the bar for a stray being considered dangerous or a nuisance is lower in Japan where people are less used to dogs and there are fewer open spaces.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • StrangerStranger
    Posts: 49
    Good job Gen! What did you do to convince the prefectural animal authorities?

    As far as logistics go, would it help any if your dad did not have take care of the dogs? I have no special need to wait until summer, although I can only take one of the dogs. I think Calia was the only person that had this kind of time issue on the US end, and several people have offered to foster one of the dogs if needed. Or did you mean that your dad can't really deal with them at all until you are able to be there personally?

    I don't mean to press you, I am just not completely sure what the situation is.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2634
    Maybe Corina can contact her breeder in Japan to see if he can adopt them? Or maybe even ask Katja to contact her breeders in Japan about these 2?
    Romi - Portia (Boxer), Ninja (Shiba), Wink (Norrbottenspets)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    great job gen. seems like there are quite a few ppl every1 has nominated to take care of these dogs til summer, if no1 is available, i will be more than happy to take them in and foster them til summer.
    let me know how it goes. am really happy to finally see these shikokus on their way outta the shelter
    thanks
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    That wasn't really a time restraint I mentioned, I was only bringing it up as an option so that east coasters can still they have a chance at offering these pups a home or two.
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • StrangerStranger
    Posts: 49
    Oh, I see now. I didn't grasp the whole chain of logic before. I don't think its a given that the dogs could only fly to the West Coast, although it would definitely be shorter and easier on a dog. Compared to not flying across the Pacific at all it seems like not that big a deal, however.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • PLwarped59PLwarped59
    Posts: 141
    I am also willing to donate what I can, and help any way.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    Gen,
    I was just talking to Mr Kishida from ARK, he added that ARK needs the paperwork to prove that the governor has given the OK for the dogs to leave Osaka, a letter or something saying they are allowed to leave for sure, the section/division that is in charge of this case... and whatever else paperowrk you can get.
    I think they just want to be sure of this.
    thanks
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 3432
    Bah, so what's going on?
    -Rina
    Post edited by okiron at 2009-03-12 04:50:17
  • ddowdemersddowdemers
    Posts: 681
    I am really late to this posting.

    I will donate $$ toward the safety of these Shikas. Just let me know where to send the $$.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    Shipping is pretty pricy......I got a quote of about $2235.00 for both dogs with their approximate weight. This is to LAX through Pelican shipping (japan). I'm going to find out from a friend in a frieght agency to see if he knows any one thats got better pricing. Other then the pick up from ARK to some ones house in Japan to care for the dogs and shipping to US, I have vet stuff, permission for the dogs to leave Osaka covered.

    I definately need some help on this one. I'm going to be out of town for a week and a half for training so until then I'm not going to beable to make much inquiries into the shipping costs.Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 3432
    Gen if that's the price for both dogs that's a good deal. Cheaper than a plane ticket for 2 people.
    -Rina
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    That price is not bad - each dog we shipped from Europe cost $2k+ a piece... and they were just pups. The value of the dollar is helping the price now I think. Hilo cost us $3,000 just for shipping at the time due to the crappy value of the dollar then.

    In some ways it may be cheaper to fly out there and fly back w/ the dog.

    ----
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    Wow....although I paid 1500 for three people to fly to and back from Japan. If thats a decent price then I guess it comes down to figuring out the trip from Osaka-someones house-USA. I would not beable to dish out that much for the two dogs though.Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 3432
    When would you need the money by Gen?
    -Rina
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    I have no idea. I think once the dogs are in a area where they can be transported, then I guess we could all figure out funding the transport part of this operation.Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tobyshibatobyshiba
    Posts: 1058
    Wow, I kept looking at the thread and avoiding it, just because I wish there was some way I could help. xD
    Those Shikas are beautiful, I wish I could adopt one of them. :)

    Good luck with trying to get them to the states.
    Owner of Sesame Shiba Inu (Toby) 8yrs old | Illustrator & Graphic Designer | My Website - Twitter

    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    Just wondering how everything's going with these pups.

    Plus, I don't know if this would make any difference, but from June to July my friend is taking a group trip to Japan and may volunteer to help bring one of the dogs back. I don't want to ask her unless you guys think this is a good idea, but she said she was willing to bring back a shika pup for me if I asked for one, so she would most likely help with this.
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • Okies, I typed this on my cell phone 4 times but it deleted and didn't send each time. An hour and fifteen minutes later, I gave up and am using a "real" computer.

    Romi - I can call and ask him to see what he might be able to do to help. He lives in the Kumamoto area.

    Everyone - My friend in Tokyo has a business friend who goes to L.A. every other month.

    She might be able to bring the Shikoku on her flight. It'll be about $200-$300 each to ship them with a boarding passenager. She WILL ask for money in exchange for transporting the dogs though. She should be satisified with $500. She's a business person not a dog person, unfortunely. So it'd be about $900-$1,000 in approximate total costs.

    Once they are in L.A. I could take in the dogs temporarily (sp?), so long as they won't jump 6 ft walls. I might be able to "get away" with keeping one of them on a longer basis. I don't work everyday and when I do I only go in for 3-4 hours on average. So I have plenty of time to spend with the(se) Shikoku if there are any issues.

    It makes me happy to see so much dedication and support from everybody. Thank you!
    Areyarisu Shikoku Kenimage

    Kotomi | Maika | Zoey | Asra | Ranala

    Other Canine Members of The Airreyalis Crew: Zander (Alaskan Klee Kai) | Saphira (Belgian Groenendael) | Izanaiya, Sanosuke & Okiana (Yakutian Laika)
    Post edited by ShikokuSpirit at 2009-03-23 18:20:13
  • StrangerStranger
    Posts: 49
    Wow, if your friend's friend can do that, it might simplify getting the dogs to the US. That still leaves them a pretty fair distance away from those of us in the East, but it sounded like there was a lot of interest from forum members closer by. If there were any shortage of available homes, though, moving them East would involve fewer complications than internationally.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • Corina-that sounds like the best way to go, thru your friend. I think if the decisions are made on which persons are taking the dogs in; things can move forward.
    Post edited by the_november_rain at 2009-03-21 16:14:59
  • lingmortonlingmorton
    Posts: 257
    Corina,
    it wld be great if your friend cld help! hopefully Gen will get on here soon and we can start discussing the logistics.
    Meanwhile, should we start a fund for this "mission"? everyone cld chip in a lil to help get these shikas to the states
    am really happy/excited for these shikas to be on their way outta the shelter & to a new home!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2634
    Did anyone ever offer to take in these dogs permanently?
    Romi - Portia (Boxer), Ninja (Shiba), Wink (Norrbottenspets)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • StrangerStranger
    Posts: 49
    My offer was for a permanent home for one dog. I believe several others were offering permanent homes. Most, like me, had a few complicating issues like living on the East coast, or concern about these dogs getting along with their other dogs. I would really love to have one of the these lovely Shikokus join my home but I am totally OK if they both go to someones else. Others may be better equipped to give these particular dogs the best possible home.
    Post edited by Stranger at 2009-03-22 02:56:15
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2634
    Ah ic.

    I don't think it was mentioned that these 2 dogs lived together or were found together...so i don't think it will be a problem if they are seperated, since it doesn't seem like they know eachother.

    If you are really serious - I think you should get in touch with Corina and have her ask her friend to see when the next time she will be flying to the US. I dont' think it matters if the dogs come together or at seperate times. Also get in contact with Gen or Ling to see if they can help find a way to get the dog transported to the airport as well as how to pay for the expenses of shipping.

    If things do go through for one dog - I'm sure Corina will be able to foster the dog for a week or more (or I can - I work from home and also live in Orange County), just so the dog won't have to take flight after flight and will have some rest time before joining you.
    Romi - Portia (Boxer), Ninja (Shiba), Wink (Norrbottenspets)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • StrangerStranger
    Posts: 49
    That sounds reasonable--letting the dogs decompress for a while before getting back into plane sounds extremely sensible.

    I haven't wanted to assume I would be one of the lucky adopters as I am a newcomer to this forum and have much less experience with Nihon Ken than most forum members (none with Shikokus), and it seemed like several others were interested. So I would not be put out if Gen or Ling or Corina, or whoever has to make the decision believes that someone else would be better.
    Post edited by Stranger at 2009-03-22 03:31:06
  • RomiRomi
    Posts: 2634
    That is true, but I think you, Gen, and Krisitin are the only ones who would offer permanent homes- many members had offered to foster until a permanent home was available. And I believe Gen mentioned he would only be able to keep one of the dogs. And Kristin has 2 dogs, so it would be a little risky not knowing the backgrounds on these dogs to see if they can co-exist with her current pack. So if you are able to take one, then that would be great! Since you don't have any other dogs currently, I think the transition will be easier and less stressful.

    However, if Kristin is still interested, and Gen would like to adopt one - perhaps you all should speak together and see which homes would ultimately be in the dogs best interest.

    I think it mostly has to do with the cost of shipping the dogs over here. I would love to help out and bring the dogs over here and try to find them forever homes, however I don't have the cash to spend 1k per dog to temporarily foster, that would be a huge loss, even though it's for a great cause...its just too much to spend right now. I think most people are in the same situation. So if we could find them forever homes first, i think that would be best - that way expenses are paid, the dogs have a permanent home waiting, and everyone is happy!

    This is just my 2 cents...I figure if there is an able willing home available...best to get one of the dogs on the way instead of staying in that shelter. But maybe I am missing something or not thinking correctly. I have only rescued a couple dogs from the shelter, but never worked in rescue besides that. So maybe there are other things we haven't considered ? Brad, Jess, Jen or Brandon - do you have any recommendations regarding this?
    Romi - Portia (Boxer), Ninja (Shiba), Wink (Norrbottenspets)
    Post edited by Romi at 2009-03-22 04:05:12
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    Posts: 4021
    I would still be interested in adopting one of these Shikas as long as they get along with Miso and Sake. Maybe one of the west coast "Temp" homes can see how they do with other dogs? I understand there may be some things that need adjusting, as long as it's nothing major I would be willing to work and train with a dog to get it settled in with my pack. I don't see the funding being a problem for me, just depends on the time it needs to be given.

    I can also fly to the west coast and bring the dog back with me at some point as long as we know they will be dog-friendly!
    Post edited by KFontaine04 at 2009-03-22 08:57:32
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    Don't forget about the Wisconsin meet up, there will be both west coasters and east coasters there. It can offer a nice resting period where a foster can help determine some of the issues, and money will be saved from not having to fly from one side to the other.
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    In the listing for these girls, the 'shikoku' says she is not interested in other dogs, and should be an only dog.
    http://www.arkbark.net/rehoming/one.cgi?id=598

    The shikoku/mix dog says she's good with other dogs.
    http://www.arkbark.net/rehoming/one.cgi?id=647

    IMO, I think if permanent west coast homes are available, then the girl(s) should go right there. If only west coast-temporary homes are available to better assess these girls, then a decompress period after their long flight would be beneficial also, before being driven to WI or flown to the east coast.

    Those with other dogs (esp on east coast) who want girl#1 should consider two things - that the shelter environment is very stressful and it could be a difficult place to determine whether or not a dog is actually good with other dogs. The other is to consider that the shelter is correct and this dog would not be suitable in a multi-dog home.
    Once in a home setting, it can go either way - the one that is deemed good with dogs could get possessive of new creature comforts, or the one not good with dogs could prove otherwise.
    Fostering definitely has the advantage to assess their temperaments and health before a permanent home is available, but I guess its a call each individual interested in this has to make... the sooner these girls get to a permanent home situation, the better.

    Like I said, I'm definitely open to foster either one of them, however to fly them to the east coast directly is not financial feasible for me right now, and its probably not good for them to fly all the way here just to be fostered anyway. But my home is open and available to them either way.
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
    shibas, beagles & more!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    p.s. If only a west coast foster is available for one or both, would the "Forum Fund" be available to help financial support their flight?
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
    shibas, beagles & more!
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00

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