But as we can see, a lot of them are cousins...I feel a lot less guilty about spaying Juno knowing that her sister Taka is at Marsha's, and because lots of the dogs we know are related to Makohime. I imagine the point of all the imports is to spread KKA genetic material into the North American pool, so I guess it is good to have a lot of possibilities to choose from inter-registry. But I am not sure how many of our KKA dogs are being 'marketed' via showing or whatever UKC breeders use to get to know studs. Is the male Tora showing/competing? thinking that say, if my kai wasnt spayed, who woudl even know about her besides other KKA/Yamabushi dogs, since I dont show her? andif I wanted to breed her, wouldnt I as the bitch owner need to shop for suitable mates? Do owners of bitches seek studs more or do the stud owners look for bitches more the other way around? (Knowing nothing, here...)
@tjbart17 Goro is too young to neuter (7.5 months). We want to wait until he's fully mature to neuter him. If we can't find him a lady friend to breed him with or if no one wants Goro offsprings (lol), then we'll neuter him as soon as he fully matures. We just thought we'd contribute to the Kai gene pool, but I guess there seems to be a lot of Wakahonjin (Akashi's sire) and Makohime (mother to Haru, Tora, and Ayu) grandkids in the USA right now.
Kazue will be shown eventually although she is only part KKA. Once Ritsu is settled in and ready, I will show him as well. I know Marsha plans to show Taka, and Peggy was working to get Tora comfortable enough for the show ring.
Oh man. I've been posting from my phone all day with four dogs around. Excuse all my type o's.
@Hinata23 it was his dew claw removal that I was thinking about. I just remember little Gordito having surgery.
Im with you. I'm not spaying Mika until she's older. I neutered Koda too young. I just want my little girl to have a healthy life. Plus after her pill popping antics they won't clear her until they monitor her kidneys and liver over the next few months. Secretly I think my vet really wants me to show her. He's quite enamered with little Mika. So Mika's not spayed either.
@Hinata23 - Well, there are none that he is not related to because his father (Akashi) shares blood from Inoue-san and Okabe-san which are the 2 breeders we built our foundation off of. So he is related to Kumi, Ayu, Haru, Nami, Sachi, Nori, Akashi, Shakko, Tyson, Ritsu... He is not related to Nio tho. If we had kept Hana a Nio x Hana litter would produce an unrelated female. A Nio x Chibi litter would too, but that would be a very close inbreeding.
@brada1878 you know, for a second there I was like "EW! No Frankenstein dogs!" at the Nio x Chibi thing. You know, considering Ciqala's name got lost in translation and became Chibi on the pedigree. lol.
"We just thought we'd contribute to the Kai gene pool, but I guess there seems to be a lot of Wakahonjin (Akashi's sire) and Makohime (mother to Haru, Tora, and Ayu) grandkids in the USA right now."
If there's so many of them, you could start prioritizing/selecting for traits. For instance, out of the intact male projeny, which ones dropped their testicles the earliest.
Great comparison in the pictures.... and great discussion. Wow so many are cousins ....over time maybe we will see a pattern emerge? As Ayk points out, I guess it's time to start narrowing down the selection criteria.
With that being said I hope any dog/bitch "contributing to the gene pool" will get health checks as it will help determine what we all have and are dealing with in making selections.
@Hinata23 The reason I have no intention on breeding a Kai is because it is a huge responsibility to find homes and making sure that you keep up with your pups so they don't get re-homed or put into a shelter. Also, if one of your pups comes back to you, then you have to have the space which I don't. Too much pressure. No thanks. :-)
@StaticNfuzz@Brada1878 If Brad and Jen ever came to me and asked for Mika to be kept intact and bred, I would do it. But I would let them own the puppies, and let them keep whatever is made to further develop the Kai community and assist them in the massive investment they have already made. I have no interest in being responsible for Kais finding homes, and no interest in making whatever money is involved. I'm too under qualified and not connected enough to establish a breeding program.
EDIT @tjbart17 That's what me and Jeff were planning on doing. We don't want to become breeders, just contribute. My in-laws were pretty taken with Goro, so we might want to save a pup for them, but other than that we just wanted to provide an extra male for US breeders to use if they were interested. Unfortunately, having a male dog means that whoever owned the female would have to deal with a lot of the difficult stuff like the birthing process and puppies crapping everywhere. If there were a way to divide that burden equally, I'd be more than willing. But yes, we totally agree with you! We're not keeping Goro intact to make a buck off him, but since we're going to wait until he's fully mature to neuter him, we thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to contribute to the gene pool and help out a little with Brad's preservation program.
@StaticNfuzz Yeah, we would definitely only consider it if Goro were up to snuff. Like I said earlier, we want to contribute to the gene pool, not weaken it with bad traits and health problems. Brad and Jen have done such a great job setting good standards for their pairings, and there's no way we would lower that bar if Goro turns out to have any issues.
It is a common misconception that people that breed dogs actually make money when they sell puppies. Responsible breeders very seldom make money off of a litter. When you add up all the cost involved, you are lucky to break even. The money is not why responsible breeders breed, it is to better the breed.
Those are the same reasons that I have kept Ren intact. So @sjp051993@brada1878 I take it Ren's breeding prospects are rather narrow due to a rather narrow gene pool here in the US. There does seem to be quite a few individual Kai within that gene pool for trait selection when it comes to gene pool expansion with import lines.
@brada1878 Haha I believe it. By small I meant the individuals capable of breeding without inbreeding, there are a good amount of individual dogs overall now though! Still narrow breeding though it seems like. The only solution is more imports of different lines besides one or two litters that will eventually be related to everyone correct?
@brada1878 Yes times are a changing aren't they!!! It used to be that Koda was pretty much related to all the Kais in the US. That's why I always thought it was so weird when people wanted me to breed with their dogs without knowing how they were related.
I'm really glad that there are more dogs out there, and that our community is growing and becoming stronger. But the fact of the matter is really that none of our dogs need to be bred. Their siblings will already be.
By keeping these dogs intact until they are mature, we can make sure we are selecting the best breeding stock based on mature dogs and not what a pup looks like at 6 or 8 months of age.
@sjp051993 Maybe I'm just starting to feel a little defensive here, so don't mind me if this is completely misreading your post lol, but I hope that wasn't meant in any way as a jab at me because I 100% agree with you! Breeding Goro is just a vague possibility for some point down the road since he'll still be intact, but before it ever started to turn into a reality, we would DEFINITELY want to consider way more than just how gosh darn handsome he is
Sorry, was not meant to come off that way. It is a very good thing for the breeding population to make sure we do not spay/neuter these pups before we see how they fully mature. So much can change as they mature. This helps the preservation effort.
Comments
@Hinata23 it was his dew claw removal that I was thinking about. I just remember little Gordito having surgery.
Im with you. I'm not spaying Mika until she's older. I neutered Koda too young. I just want my little girl to have a healthy life. Plus after her pill popping antics they won't clear her until they monitor her kidneys and liver over the next few months. Secretly I think my vet really wants me to show her. He's quite enamered with little Mika. So Mika's not spayed either.
If there's so many of them, you could start prioritizing/selecting for traits. For instance, out of the intact male projeny, which ones dropped their testicles the earliest.
With that being said I hope any dog/bitch "contributing to the gene pool" will get health checks as it will help determine what we all have and are dealing with in making selections.
Thanks for sharing everyone!
Snf
Snf
@tjbart17 Yeah, I totally get you
I'm really glad that there are more dogs out there, and that our community is growing and becoming stronger. But the fact of the matter is really that none of our dogs need to be bred. Their siblings will already be.