@zandrame no she ended her heat around the 7th/8th of this month. So that was a bit ago...i dont think she's injured anywhere, and she got bit once at a dog park, but didn't act affected by it (besides the immediate yipping due to pain)...she walked back up to the dog that bit her and kept playing with other dogs..As far as interactions with the dogs she doesnt pick fights with, she's a little less interested in dogs all together, and she's MUCH more flirty non-stop with boys. The dogs were a Frenchie, a puggle, and a puppy boxer. The Frenchie was after it played with Kimber and went to Kona (she snapped)..the puggle was just as the puggle was running towards me, and the boxer was like the frenchie.
I took Kona out to some breweries for my friend's bday last night, and she had some interactions with other dogs...but she's always been kinda weird on leash, so that's hard to judge. She was ok with these mini-aussies, until they kinda started pushing more towards her face, then she started growling and barked.
@NavyDog I see...yeah so this could be. I think I plan on taking Kona to a dog park in La Jolla where I know there are always lots of dogs, without Kimber, just so it's an off-leash environment without Kimber and then monitor how she acts with what dogs.
@omgtain She's not reacting to every dog, so that's why I'm so confused She's a year old now, and she is great with Kimber...sometimes when Kimber gets really nippy Kona gets annoyed, so I take Kimber away..but most of the time she loves her. And LOVES playing with her at the dog park when it's just the two of them. Non-stop game of Chase and Wrestle haha
ETA: I'll add that she doesnt seem to really play quite as often unless it's with Kimber...like she used to LOVE fetch indoors, and tug of war, etc.. she kinda does it with Kimber, but she seems to just lay around more..I'm not sure if that's age or Kimber, or some combo of both
she's a little less interested in dogs all together
I think she's just growing up, and its natural for adults (esp NK) to become more dog-selective as they get older. What you don't want is to keep sticking her in situations where she really would rather not be, where she feels she has to take action to herself to have the personal space she needs as a mature adult. You want to preserve the good feelings she still has toward dogs. Remember that she is in a multi dog home and so she's probably getting her recommended daily allowance of crazy dog-play every day and dog park mania is less appealing than when she was younger and 'single'. My prescription is to skip the park for Kona, build in more 1:1 time with you, and go out either when the park is empty or take walks on leash where you see dogs but everything's under control. In this way, you can show her nodoggy's going to get up in her grille, and you can reinforce her for looking at a dog and moving on, or having a nice sniff greeting with a dog and moving on.
Yeah I know what you mean, my dog doesn't like pit bulls, English labs, old English bulldogs, border collies, boerbels, male kais, and kangals, also greyhounds I think.
We're going to the dog park later so I'll tell you guys if I notice somthing. P.s. you guys live on the east coast or the west coast or smack dab in da middle bro?
@WrylyBrindle thank you so much for your advice...that was something I was thinking about, that she's just getting older and is exactly what you said (more mature and selective with dogs)..I just was worried maybe it's something I did that changed her I'll follow you recommendation, i could even tell yesterday she was SO happy when I took her with us to several breweries for my friend's bday. I asked him if it was OK we go to only dog-friendly ones so I can get Kona out of the house herself again (also Scott is one of the people who has known her and spent tons of time with her as a puppy since we were coding partners and he'd be over for VERY long periods of time haha), so she was STOKED the entire time it seemed like another good time for her to be around people she loves and out on another mini-adventure..also got lots of love and attention from all the strangers along the way
Michelle- it is natural to think that you did something - I wrestled with that re:Sage for waaaayy too long. But-
you haven't changed her, and you did nothing wrong.
Read that as many times as you need to, because I know how persistent that feeling can be
You did great to choose activities for Kona that *she* likes- visiting friends, going out to the pub, making friends with human strangers (her brother also loves to meet new people!) She doesn't need to circulate in the mosh pit that is the dog park to feel fulfilled, not at all. I love that she's out on the town! Matsu would totally agree, too
It's probably a combination of things - maturity, less need for dog-dog interactions when she has Kimber 24/7, being bitten, etc. And it is worth noting that the 3 incidents you mentioned were with brachycephalic dogs. The smooshed faces with bulging eyes and upturned lips can be more offensive to some dogs. Also seems like she doesn't like dogs quickly approaching her face, Kouda is the same way, especially on leash - if a strange dog on a flexi rushes up to him, he will have a fit. If I see an out of control dog "walking" its owner towards me, I change direction or switch sides of the street.
I think you are on the right track with giving her more human interactions as an alternative! If she doesn't need the park, that's okay. Just be aware of her possible triggers and minimize or intervene when you feel she is uncomfortable.
It's funny that she's flirty with the boys though.. I wonder if hormones could be part of the mix too.
And eventually maybe another forum meetup would be good. NKs just understand each other better. Kouda love love looooved that day!
Most intact Kai females go through a phase around 1 year, that can last a year or so, where they get kinda snarky and intolerant of some dogs. Sounds like Kona is going through the same thing.
The key is to not let her practice the behavior of bullying other dogs. I would cut down on the free-play with unknown dogs as much as you can without limiting her socialization. The less she is allowed to behave that way, the less likely it will be that she does it in the future.
@zandrame yeah the meetup was so awesome! i already can't wait for the next
@brada1878 interesting, didn't know that, but it explains a lot of things, because she didnt start getting this snarky till post 1-year bday and 2nd heat. I definitely tried to correct her and pull her away when she bullied the other dogs, but i'm going to take yours and chrystal's advice on basically making sure i don't force her into those situations..when it comes to cutting down on free-play but not limiting her socialization, do you have ideas of what's the best way to handle that? You mean just letting her play with fewer dogs (or one-on-one play) off-leash, or no off-leash at all? Sorry if my question is silly
Thanks so much everyone for your help so far! I feel like I have a better understanding of the situation and some piece of mind now
So took Kona down to the dog park to go to the bathroom (no one was down there)..then the dude with 3 chihuahuas came down..I went to grab Kona and she kept kinda just getting away from me smiling and eying this one girl one. All Kona's fur was standing up, then went after it and got on top of her and growled (nothing near as serious as the last chihuahua she acted aggressive towards), but still scary that's the only place close by where they can go to the bathroom and exercise a bit..should I avoid it altogether and walk further away where they have to stay on leash so these kind of interactions don't happen, or just try and take her down there when no dogs are there so her and Kimber can do their business and run around a little bit? I just want to make sure I do the right thing..this is so difficult and confusing for me ...I just want to make sure I do the right thing, and I apologize ahead of time if the question is silly
I think I would avoid any other dogs she doesn't know/like at the dog park. Only go there when her and Kimber can be alone or with dogs she's already friendly with. Otherwise like others have said, the more experiences she has that are negative, the more often she'll repeat her poor reaction again and again. Hopefully she'll grow out of it, but at least you won't cement it into habit if you focus on her having only positive interactions with other dogs, even if that means just Kimber for now.
Appreciate it @tmd she was much better today..I think hormones may definitely be at play here like @brada1878 said, but either way I'll make a significant effort to minimize any bad interactions/too many dogs. Thanks again!
is your dog separated by a small and big dog park? If so, i would go in non-peak hours and go to the big dog area. Bea views the small dogs as "prey" so I don't go to the small side at all…and I don't like yapping chihuahuas.
@ttdinh it's not...it's literally more of a place for them to go to the bathroom than a formalized "dog park"..I've been kinda avoiding it unless I know there are no dogs down there to begin with or I know the dogs that are down there...
Funny too, the chihuahuas that Kona was trying to "kill" before she's now reacting to much more calmly (though those interactions are still controlled and mostly on leash)..in the beginning she would just make eye contact and growl and snarl and pull, now she just minds her own business and doesn't care, so I'm hoping soon enough she won't care again and I can let her off but yeah, she does much better with bigger dogs too! and it's cute too...Kimber will maybe mess around with them a little, but none like to run with her like Kona..so she waits till they leave, then I let Kona off and they run together!! ^_^ I'm so happy they love each other and have fun with each other
So I got an old DSLR off a co-worker of mine and decided to try and capture some decent photos of Kona and Kimber both. So here are a few more recent non-phone camera pictures of Kona. Some of them are from her with Kimber at the dog park...Kona is doing much better around other dogs again. A little snarky when she gets tired and they act a little pushy, but that's understandable. Forgive me I still have a lot to learn about shooting pics and editing!
And from the dog park: She likes to plan her attacks
So just wanted to share a brief update on Kona's behavior, because I found and am finding this time with her as a huge learning experience for me :P
It really seems like a lot of Kona's behavior was stemming from and accentuated by hormones from being in-tact..I've been noticing more and more over the last few weeks, just with us at home, Kona's behavior changing. She went from fairly lackadaisical and almost depressed looking, just laying around a lot, to "MOM! MOM! I have a toy, fetch PLEEASE lets play fetch!" and she even initiates 90% of play with Kimber, esp at the dog park when the two are alone...her tail is much more waggy, and eyes so much more bright...unbelievable how distinct the mood change has been..kinda like how PMSy women can get, but on a bit of a larger scale lol.
Where I really really have been noticing the slow difference has been at our dog park..she started becoming much more tolerant of all the little barky chihuahuas a bit ago (before if we walked by them on leash and they barked at her, she put on this giant display..I avoided the dog park when they were there because of how bad it was when she was off leash taking people's advice). Then today, she WENT to greet each and every one of the dogs! The puggle that most of this started with, etc.. Now, she was best friends with the puggle before this last heat cycle which is why the sudden aggression kind of surprised me, and today she acted just like before. With all of them, just "oh hey guys! what's up! wanna chase me?" she always loves the big dogs (for whatever reason..unless they're enormous...then she takes some time to warm up to them lol), but was playing with or paid no attention to the small obnoxious ones. It really is nice though that the owners of literally all those dogs that Kona was mean to are all so understanding and have been working with me since this started...it would have been much more miserable/difficult if they just labeled Kona as this terrible dog (even the owner of the poor chihuahua Kona got on top of and looked really scary with has been actively wanting to help, maybe because he's known Kona for a while)..I can ask them to keep some distance first and let Kona be comfortable, know everything is in control and then proceed to come down and greet..there are a few that are surprised "oh the older one isn't being so mean anymore!" (which that comment kind of irks me, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt) and they're asking me what changed...can't exactly say hormones, since I'm not positive in my complex we're allowed to have in-tact dogs, but I just say we've been working at it (can't wait to move into a house).
Now as happy as I am I'm trying not to be too happy, I'm sure none of this is to say she won't snap or revert even during the three months that she's "happy" or ever feel like she does NOT want to be around certain dogs because I'm sure she likes her space, so I'm still practicing "look at me" when dogs look like they're getting too intense and she looks like she's going to react to it, and making sure I remove her from or try and prevent situations I think may be too much for her. I realize she is still NK and still has different tendencies than other breeds, so I can't expect her to just be happy-go-lucky forever again.. And the more I do it the more I notice her trust in me.. it's been great and I've gotten some great info and advice from various people, for which I cannot thank enough
K, novel is over...sorry for so much writing, just happy to see
Very good work, Michelle! I love the relationship building...
the more I do it the more I notice her trust in me..
stick with it and that will always be there, and you will 'hear' her very clearly at the earliest sign she needs your support or an extra minute- being in tune together. beautiful!!
She's always been pretty good with "communicating" some things with me..the best example is when she sees something (like a rabbit in a bush at the dog park), and she looks at me and keeps nudging in that direction..like "There's SOMETHING theere! LOOK!" Or when I see something she would like, and I crouch down and say "Kona, LOOK over there!" she tries so hard to look at what I'm pointing too, like she knows it HAS to be good!
But this is much different, much stronger..she's my buddy
Now to work on the little one haha...much MUCH more aloof and meandering. I'm sure she'll just take some more time
Great news Michelle! I'm happy to hear she's doing better and I'm love the fact that you're bonding with and listening to your dog rather than treating it as a fashion accessory like so many do. Kona's such a great girl and she deserves a dedicated, loving owner like you.
@tmd I really really appreciate that My girls are a huge part of my life and they love unconditionally and make me feel good, so I think they deserve the same! I can never go without having them in the back of my mind haha...
To think what I'm going to be like with kids LOL! xP
Small update on Kona..we just recently did a pretty long trip for winter break (about 2 weeks), where we went to visit family and went out to Colorado as well to visit Fairplay again in winter! The snow was awesome to get to spend some time in (granted, we left the MORNING that big winter storm came through!). Kona and Kimber had some fun, Kimber had the most fun..though Kona really likes the boys
Here's a quick video of her playing with Kishin and Kiba (and Kimber!)
And here's one of her in the snow and a few new updated ones of her from her play with Kimber. My favorite are her shots where she's getting ready to pounce! :P
Comments
How old is she now and has she been acting differently at home or towards Kimber?
I took Kona out to some breweries for my friend's bday last night, and she had some interactions with other dogs...but she's always been kinda weird on leash, so that's hard to judge. She was ok with these mini-aussies, until they kinda started pushing more towards her face, then she started growling and barked.
@NavyDog I see...yeah so this could be. I think I plan on taking Kona to a dog park in La Jolla where I know there are always lots of dogs, without Kimber, just so it's an off-leash environment without Kimber and then monitor how she acts with what dogs.
@omgtain She's not reacting to every dog, so that's why I'm so confused
ETA: I'll add that she doesnt seem to really play quite as often unless it's with Kimber...like she used to LOVE fetch indoors, and tug of war, etc.. she kinda does it with Kimber, but she seems to just lay around more..I'm not sure if that's age or Kimber, or some combo of both
@tarokun I live on the west coast
you haven't changed her, and you did nothing wrong.
Read that as many times as you need to, because I know how persistent that feeling can be
You did great to choose activities for Kona that *she* likes- visiting friends, going out to the pub, making friends with human strangers (her brother also loves to meet new people!) She doesn't need to circulate in the mosh pit that is the dog park to feel fulfilled, not at all. I love that she's out on the town! Matsu would totally agree, too
@tarokun yeah there seems to be a good amount! When we did our SoCal Nihon Ken meetup there was a pretty good turnout!
I think you are on the right track with giving her more human interactions as an alternative! If she doesn't need the park, that's okay. Just be aware of her possible triggers and minimize or intervene when you feel she is uncomfortable.
It's funny that she's flirty with the boys though.. I wonder if hormones could be part of the mix too.
And eventually maybe another forum meetup would be good. NKs just understand each other better. Kouda love love looooved that day!
The key is to not let her practice the behavior of bullying other dogs. I would cut down on the free-play with unknown dogs as much as you can without limiting her socialization. The less she is allowed to behave that way, the less likely it will be that she does it in the future.
@brada1878 interesting, didn't know that, but it explains a lot of things, because she didnt start getting this snarky till post 1-year bday and 2nd heat. I definitely tried to correct her and pull her away when she bullied the other dogs, but i'm going to take yours and chrystal's advice on basically making sure i don't force her into those situations..when it comes to cutting down on free-play but not limiting her socialization, do you have ideas of what's the best way to handle that? You mean just letting her play with fewer dogs (or one-on-one play) off-leash, or no off-leash at all? Sorry if my question is silly
Thanks so much everyone for your help so far! I feel like I have a better understanding of the situation and some piece of mind now
Funny too, the chihuahuas that Kona was trying to "kill" before she's now reacting to much more calmly (though those interactions are still controlled and mostly on leash)..in the beginning she would just make eye contact and growl and snarl and pull, now she just minds her own business and doesn't care, so I'm hoping soon enough she won't care again and I can let her off
And from the dog park:
She likes to plan her attacks
It really seems like a lot of Kona's behavior was stemming from and accentuated by hormones from being in-tact..I've been noticing more and more over the last few weeks, just with us at home, Kona's behavior changing. She went from fairly lackadaisical and almost depressed looking, just laying around a lot, to "MOM! MOM! I have a toy, fetch PLEEASE lets play fetch!" and she even initiates 90% of play with Kimber, esp at the dog park when the two are alone...her tail is much more waggy, and eyes so much more bright...unbelievable how distinct the mood change has been..kinda like how PMSy women can get, but on a bit of a larger scale lol.
Where I really really have been noticing the slow difference has been at our dog park..she started becoming much more tolerant of all the little barky chihuahuas a bit ago (before if we walked by them on leash and they barked at her, she put on this giant display..I avoided the dog park when they were there because of how bad it was when she was off leash taking people's advice). Then today, she WENT to greet each and every one of the dogs! The puggle that most of this started with, etc.. Now, she was best friends with the puggle before this last heat cycle which is why the sudden aggression kind of surprised me, and today she acted just like before. With all of them, just "oh hey guys! what's up! wanna chase me?" she always loves the big dogs (for whatever reason..unless they're enormous...then she takes some time to warm up to them lol), but was playing with or paid no attention to the small obnoxious ones. It really is nice though that the owners of literally all those dogs that Kona was mean to are all so understanding and have been working with me since this started...it would have been much more miserable/difficult if they just labeled Kona as this terrible dog (even the owner of the poor chihuahua Kona got on top of and looked really scary with has been actively wanting to help, maybe because he's known Kona for a while)..I can ask them to keep some distance first and let Kona be comfortable, know everything is in control and then proceed to come down and greet..there are a few that are surprised "oh the older one isn't being so mean anymore!" (which that comment kind of irks me, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt) and they're asking me what changed...can't exactly say hormones, since I'm not positive in my complex we're allowed to have in-tact dogs, but I just say we've been working at it (can't wait to move into a house).
Now as happy as I am I'm trying not to be too happy, I'm sure none of this is to say she won't snap or revert even during the three months that she's "happy" or ever feel like she does NOT want to be around certain dogs because I'm sure she likes her space, so I'm still practicing "look at me" when dogs look like they're getting too intense and she looks like she's going to react to it, and making sure I remove her from or try and prevent situations I think may be too much for her. I realize she is still NK and still has different tendencies than other breeds, so I can't expect her to just be happy-go-lucky forever again.. And the more I do it the more I notice her trust in me.. it's been great and I've gotten some great info and advice from various people, for which I cannot thank enough
K, novel is over...sorry for so much writing, just happy to see
She's always been pretty good with "communicating" some things with me..the best example is when she sees something (like a rabbit in a bush at the dog park), and she looks at me and keeps nudging in that direction..like "There's SOMETHING theere! LOOK!" Or when I see something she would like, and I crouch down and say "Kona, LOOK over there!" she tries so hard to look at what I'm pointing too, like she knows it HAS to be good!
But this is much different, much stronger..she's my buddy
Now to work on the little one haha...much MUCH more aloof and meandering. I'm sure she'll just take some more time
To think what I'm going to be like with kids LOL! xP
Here's a quick video of her playing with Kishin and Kiba (and Kimber!)
And here's one of her in the snow and a few new updated ones of her from her play with Kimber. My favorite are her shots where she's getting ready to pounce! :P