I just spent quite a bit of time reading many of Jim Crosby's blog posts. Really interesting about dogs and aggression, and the dogs he has worked with. If he wrote a book, I'd buy it! The story of Helo, the husky who supposedly killed a child (but probably didn't) was really interesting....And of course the stuff about Lennox is just heartbreaking, and I was so interested in his suggestions for practical laws for dangerous dogs (vs. BSL).
Found this clip online as people discussed the recent Cesar Milan and Holly resource guarding problem. This short video demonstrated what a reward-based behavior modification may look like when dealing with resource guarding.
I think I'm going to repost this and some of the blog post responses on the Shiba side. Everytime we get a new influx of members there (as in all the time?) we have to go through the discussion about Millan again. I think the talk of canine body language in some of these blogs will be useful....
I watched the full episode since I felt it isn't right to judge it just by the small video.
The owners got Holly from a person in a hardware store parking lot so my guess a backyard breeder who doesn't care who their pups go to..
On the times Cesar worked with Holly he didn't have as much an issue like in the first video we saw..
They showed clips of what his owner does he used a broom to get him away from the food. also they were told to put the kibble on the ground by a trainer to help stop the resource guarding? Anyone heard of that?! Crazy.
The dog did seem more guarded when the male owner was out with Cesar as you can see in the video.
Before the video we saw the male owner mentioned he's more aggressive with him and they've gone at it I think he said I forgot exact words.. So maybe he tried to physically stop him and it made it worse I dunno.
Resource guarding started at 5months..
Before he was taken to Cesar's center they showed video of him being worse in his crate snarling and baring teeth.
So he was brought to the center and Cesar decided it'd be best if he stayed with him and they got a dog that better suited them.
I think it was best for Holly to be in a different place not safe for the baby plus if the owners had such bad experience with the dog it'd probably be hard to work with him and not be so afraid of the dog.. Kinda sad because when no food was around he was sweet to the kid and acted like normal lab retrieving ball and stuff.
While I don't agree how he trains or approach some dogs and I hate the intense music maybe it's to help viewers pay attention to the dog what it is doing, but I find it not needed and annoying.
I just don't get people why go get a puppy from a breeder just selling them in parking lot? Doesn't sound right..
As owner if I get a pup from breeder and can drive to their place I'd want to do it. meet the mom, dad and their other dogs to get feel their health and temperament..
Resource guarding is common thing some dogs are fine don't resource guard high valued things or low ones, but some do.
I feel it's best to work on it when the dog is young.
Hand feeding Saya as pup for long time really helped. I fed her some then she got rest in her bowl..
During my adoption process at the shelter, they gave me a list of 3 trainers in Gainesville. Supposably they were all positive reinforcement behaviors when they told me 1 trainer was the Cesar Milan of trainers and I said, "So I should avoid them, right?" They were quite angry with the remark.
I've been told them 1 of the other trainers is no longer practicing and they just looked at me with as if they said, "smartass."
@Zinja lol xD. I probably wouldn't be able to help myself with a smart remark to the "Cesar Milan" trainer comment either. I don't exactly support his methods... From my experience, NK respond well to POSITIVE reinforcement, and any kind of negative training is high risk of ruining your bond. Taki is a very emotional dog, and if I yell at her she wont fully forgive me for quite some time. I honestly don't remember the last time she was in actual trouble for anything. She gets nervous when Akita potties on the floor. If I leave the 2 of them in the kitchen, I'll see her sitting at the gate and staring at me with a sense of urgency when I come out of the study - a sure sign that Akita has made potty on the floor, lol. Maybe Cesar's methods "work" (quote-unquote) because he is not the owner of the dog. He comes in and lays down this behavioral shock-therapy to the dog. I would rather my dog love me and be a little bit of a shit-head than be fearful/submissive and obedient. Hopefully that translates better than the way I typed it xD.
@sandrat888 love the video - really shows how amazing positive reinforcement training can be! My Shiba is very good at coming when she is called off-the-leash, because when I say "here" she gets a high reward treat 100% of the time and she is VERY food-motivated. Find out what they like the most and manipulate the buggers xD.
Dr. David Mech wrote a book in the 70s discussing "alpha" wolves. He even claims he was one of the researchers who coined the term, "alpha" wolves. He goes on saying that this ideology that current dogs do not follow this mindset today because of extensive research. IMHO, Cesar's training technique is perfectly acceptable... many many many years ago.
Now, I do believe dogs are not the same as wolves. Dogs were bred for many years to interact with humans and perform tasks alongside us. A relationship needs to be established between ourselves and our dogs. Wolves, on the other hand, were bred to survive and fend for their family. The way we train dogs should not coincide with training wolves. The two just has different purposes.
As far as dog training, establishing a positive relationship is the way to create a more harmonious life with your dog. For example, if you have a forceful boss who makes you feel inferior, are you more likely to do what your boss expects? No. If my boss constantly praises me for the simple tasks I have done, I are more likely to work at an optimum performance and keep my badmouthing to a minimum.
Comments
anyway, thanks again Jessica, for posting that.
The owners got Holly from a person in a hardware store parking lot so my guess a backyard breeder who doesn't care who their pups go to..
On the times Cesar worked with Holly he didn't have as much an issue like in the first video we saw..
They showed clips of what his owner does he used a broom to get him away from the food. also they were told to put the kibble on the ground by a trainer to help stop the resource guarding? Anyone heard of that?! Crazy.
The dog did seem more guarded when the male owner was out with Cesar as you can see in the video.
Before the video we saw the male owner mentioned he's more aggressive with him and they've gone at it I think he said I forgot exact words.. So maybe he tried to physically stop him and it made it worse I dunno.
Resource guarding started at 5months..
Before he was taken to Cesar's center they showed video of him being worse in his crate snarling and baring teeth.
So he was brought to the center and Cesar decided it'd be best if he stayed with him and they got a dog that better suited them.
I think it was best for Holly to be in a different place not safe for the baby plus if the owners had such bad experience with the dog it'd probably be hard to work with him and not be so afraid of the dog.. Kinda sad because when no food was around he was sweet to the kid and acted like normal lab retrieving ball and stuff.
While I don't agree how he trains or approach some dogs and I hate the intense music maybe it's to help viewers pay attention to the dog what it is doing, but I find it not needed and annoying.
I just don't get people why go get a puppy from a breeder just selling them in parking lot? Doesn't sound right..
As owner if I get a pup from breeder and can drive to their place I'd want to do it. meet the mom, dad and their other dogs to get feel their health and temperament..
Resource guarding is common thing some dogs are fine don't resource guard high valued things or low ones, but some do.
I feel it's best to work on it when the dog is young.
Hand feeding Saya as pup for long time really helped. I fed her some then she got rest in her bowl..
http://ems-dogsense.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/cesar-milan-why-i-dont-like-what-he-does.html
Outwitting Dogs – A Rant
http://lifeasahuman.com/2012/pets/outwitting-dogs-a-rant/
I've been told them 1 of the other trainers is no longer practicing and they just looked at me with as if they said, "smartass."
They approved my application though ^.^
@sandrat888 love the video - really shows how amazing positive reinforcement training can be! My Shiba is very good at coming when she is called off-the-leash, because when I say "here" she gets a high reward treat 100% of the time and she is VERY food-motivated. Find out what they like the most and manipulate the buggers xD.
Dr. David Mech wrote a book in the 70s discussing "alpha" wolves. He even claims he was one of the researchers who coined the term, "alpha" wolves. He goes on saying that this ideology that current dogs do not follow this mindset today because of extensive research. IMHO, Cesar's training technique is perfectly acceptable... many many many years ago.
Now, I do believe dogs are not the same as wolves. Dogs were bred for many years to interact with humans and perform tasks alongside us. A relationship needs to be established between ourselves and our dogs. Wolves, on the other hand, were bred to survive and fend for their family. The way we train dogs should not coincide with training wolves. The two just has different purposes.
As far as dog training, establishing a positive relationship is the way to create a more harmonious life with your dog. For example, if you have a forceful boss who makes you feel inferior, are you more likely to do what your boss expects? No. If my boss constantly praises me for the simple tasks I have done, I are more likely to work at an optimum performance and keep my badmouthing to a minimum.
http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/comment/220247#Comment_220247
And shibamistress linked it as well today.
http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/comment/220650#Comment_220650